Declining all offers?

[mrsconradfisher]

Will try to keep this as brief as possible. DS1 has applied for 5 courses at 4 different Uni’s. The Uni he really wants, he has applied for 2 courses but really is only likely to want to do one of them. Don’t ask me why he did it like that, he applied early under pressure from 6th form and he is now doubting all his choices.
He currently has offers from Birmingham of ABB (predicted AAA), Surrey (BBB) and UEA (for ABB) but it’s not exactly the course he wants to do but it’s our local Uni.
He really wants Loughborough, it’s Sports Science he’s applying for. Problem is they have said they only take applicants with A A A (said at open day) and he hasn’t heard anything yet. We’ve just had his updated predicted grades after his mocks and they’ve now been updated to A A A so assume with those grades he would get an offer. Trouble is he can’t do anything about it now as the application has been submitted.
He wants to wait until he heard from Loughborough and then if there is no offer, reject the lot and apply for a completely different course on UCAS extra.
Im trying to convince him to go for Birmingham but was very underwhelmed at the Open Day, they are surrounded by top tier football clubs yet they have no direct links and don’t do a placement year which seems crazy for a Sports Science degree.

Is that a really ridiculous idea? I think he is just wobbling about the whole thing, he wants Loughborough and I’m not sure anything else will be right!

I’m really don’t understand why he would reject all others and apply for something else. Is he not committed to sports science? As Loughborough is competitive, he cannot rely on an offer from them but I don’t see the sense in then throwing all your toys out of the pram! Does he want this degree/career or not?

I guess he could reapply to Loughborough after results and enhance his application by working.

You do have to understand that a university rarely finds all students placements. Universities never have enough. Students frequently have to find their own. University advertised ones are often competitive. So some lose out. Then what? They cannot all go to football clubs! With huge numbers of universities offering this course, it must be really difficult to get placements for everyone. It also increases the degree to 4 years I assume.

Bath doesn’t seem to do placements. nor Durham. These are brilliant universities and placements don’t feature. They have high employment rates.

My ds looking at a completely different course but was impressed by Surrey.
Is this the course he is looking at there?
I think rejecting the lot is unwise. Has he visited all his choices?
Also, at this stage no need to reject any.

We are ranked top 10 in the UK for Sports Science by the Complete University Guide 2023 and have an over 90% satisfaction score for this course in the National Student Survey 2022
.www.surrey.ac.uk/undergraduate/sport-and-exercise-science

No he is absolutely committed to Sports Science however he actually wanted to do a joint honours with Sports Science and Psychology in the first instance but that is apparently rarer than hens teeth. He looked everywhere (he though!), so did I and so did his head of 6th form and none of us could find it. You can do sports psychology or sports science but not both together, however 3 weeks ago he found out by chance that Newcastle do it so that would be his 1 choice if he declines all the others.
He is honestly the most sensible, measured 17 year old but I think he is panicking. In hindsight he wouldn’t have picked at least 2 of his choices, possibly 3. UEA is a no go as it’s not the right course but he chose it as it’s 40 mins from us so figured it was a safe bet. His first choice was Loughborough and then Birmingham but honestly the course talk at Birmingham was awful. Yes the lack of placements isn’t great but I think he could get over that, it’s just every other uni we looked at had links to sporting clubs (not just football) and Birmingham had none. It’s pretty crucial in a sports science degree to have access to participants to study.
We haven’t actually been to Surrey but are going to the offer day, despite me convincing him otherwise in his head he thinks because they have significantly lower entry requirements than Loughborough the course isn’t so good. Maybe he will change his mind when he sees it.
it’s not helping that out of his entire 6th form, there are only a handful actually applying to Uni and non of his friends so I think in general he has got himself in a state about going full stop.
He wants to wait for Loughborough first and then decide but I’m very doubtful he’ll get an offer after what they said at the Open Day.

My ds predicted far higher than Surrey but loved it. It knocked Bath off his top spot!

Some of these unis study their own sports teams. Have you looked at that? Surely with world class sport and rehab facilities, real people use them? That’s what it looks like to me anyway. Did he not tour these and ask questions ? I would assume they were not empty unused monoliths.

Also the top universities are definitely research led. They all seem to talk about their research. Not necessarily about assisting individuals. So I would ask what research they are doing.

I don’t know if he can amend his application now. Others know more then me. Obviously students want to be happy but I wouldn’t discard a uni just on a single talk.

Surrey is a safe choice. It’s certainly ok as a choice. It’s not Bath or Durham though. The Complete University guide ranks them above Loughborough. UEA, Surrey and Birmingham are more of less identical and in the top 10. Newcastle is 12 and of course is very different to Surrey and UEA! It’s a city/party uni. Has he visited all of these places?

I wish people wouldn't write off Newcastle as just a "party" university. As with all universities partying and clubbing is optional. There is more opportunity to go clubbing in Newcastle than say at Royal Holloway, but there are loads of students who don't.

DD is sociable but hates clubbing. She still managed to find her tribe and have a sociable time without partying and clubbing (and achieve a top class STEM degree)

Right, a couple of things. His predicted grades on his UCAS application was AAA meaning he is at the bottom end of Loughborough's entry grade of A star AA - AAA. He has to understand that the entry grades are the lowest grades they will take an applicant in on meaning that oversubscribed courses cherry pick the 3 A star applicants first. They want students who can cope with the work load demand and excel. Sadly part of this is judged on A level grades.

I am hoping that your Ds has a personal statement that reflects his love of the subject and all the things he has done outside of sixth form that support that. Anything from what he has watched, read, listened to, any certificates or experience of sports science and most importantly what he has learned from it all. He is within their grade range, how good were his GCSEs? What do his teachers say about him? He is clearly good enough to be offered a place from other well regarded universities.

Secondly, there is no rush. If he doesn't go to uni this year it isn't the end of the world. He can then apply with grades in hand and apply to Newcastle and Loughborough whilst adding to his personal statement any work/volunteer work/summer schools he will do in the summer after his A levels. He doesn't need to do early entry so he has time to get something under his belt.

Also don't dismiss an entire university based on one person giving one talk. If you can before year 13 life gets too crazy book some weekends in the uni towns, get a feel for the place.

First off, I would say your DS has done an excellent job in selecting university options – as @TizerorFizz says all of his choices are in the top 10 for Sports Science and all are well regarded (DH and DS both work in sport, in different ways). So it might be worth reminding him of that @mrsconradfisher. Newcastle would also be a great choice, both for the course and the city, imo.

Bath most certainly do do placement years, in sports science and other subjects. Although it is correct to say no university guarantees finding all their students a placement, I would agree with OP that in sports science it is an important consideration. I don't know anything about Birmingham so this isn't intended as a criticism of them specifically but I would be wary of any university which doesn't seem to have good links with local professional sports clubs; it's not just about a placement year, it's about access to fields of study. University sport is a very good standard, but it's a world away from Premier League football or professional rugby or tennis, for example.

Birmingham have a page on their website where they talk about placements and internships and list Wolves, West Brom, Aston Villa and Birmingham City as football clubs that have hosted placements and internships. They also list various other organisations where their students have done placements.

They don't offer a formal placement year and say that their internships are by competitive application, but they do indicate that both full year and one-off placements are possible.

They also say the department has links with the Football Federation, along with Swim England, British Gymnastics, British Triathlon and the Birmingham Royal Ballet amongst others.

I suspect it was just a poorly organised open day.

@Phphion
That was quite difficult to find. Not sure how I missed it: I had a good look. They certainly talk about their facilities but I’m amazed the question wasn’t asked on an open day by DS if no one else.

I think the issue is, and I’ve seen it before with other students/courses, that there are not enough internships/ placements to go round. Huge numbers of universities offer this course. The students might find it quite difficult to end up at Wolves and Villa. So I bet some placements are very competitive! However all the courses might not actually guarantee anything.

Teacher and 6th form tutor here. He should reapply after A levels. Much better than going to a Uni/course he doesn’t want. Lots of students aren’t really ready to apply and the system shovels them through.Lots of related jobs he could do in a gap year - lots of independent schools employ gap year students to help with sports coaching etc.

Many thanks for everyone’s replies. I’m awful at replying to individual people but just to touch on a few points.
He definitely did ask at the open day at Birmingham, he spoke directly to the course tutor both in the course talk and individually afterwards and was told that they have no direct links to football clubs or any other local sporting organisations. He also queried the placement year and was told they don’t do it as they can’t guarantee the quality of the establishment the students go to. Another Mum there had the same query and her son asked another lecturer the same thing and was given the same answer. It just seems really odd to me tbh. We are however going to go to the offer holder day as DS loved the uni itself and the city, just not the finer details of the course.
I think the thing that’s frustrating him is that is he hopefully going to get the grades that Loughborough want, his mocks were A A A and that should hopefully go up so if he had waited and applied now then he’d fit the criteria. His PS is excellent. He took part in a programme called Zero Gravity which was intended to get state school students into Russell Group uni’s and was mentored by a Masters Student at Durham who said it was one of the best PS she had read.
His references are brilliant, he has both played various sports for many years and has also volunteered.
His GCSE grades were good, not amazing but then they were Teacher Assessed. He got mostly 7’s with a couple of 6’s and a 4 in Spanish.
Ive suggested a Gap year and apply with grades next year. I think he’s worried that after year working he won’t want to go, especially with mates and his girlfriend here but it’s certainly something to consider.
that’s really good to know that they are all well regarded for Sport. He has got it into his head that it has to be Loughborough, I’m not convinced it’s the right environment for him and I think somewhere else might be a better fit.
Surrey is the only one he applied for that we haven’t visited, simply because the open day was the same day as another he was considering but will go to the offer day.
Its really tough on this year group tbh, they haven’t done exams and have no clue how they will do in an exam situation. He could do brilliantly or completely mess up.

Ahh that should say his mocks were A . A
A…

I think he’s worried that after year working he won’t want to go, especially with mates and his girlfriend here

But won't they all be going off to university?

Nope, he is literally the only one going. Out of his entire 6th Form, I think only 5/6 applied and non of his friend group. That’s not helping him doubting his decisions either.

Ds just got his offer for Surrey. Told him to Check offer days as apparently listed. Also needs to check Bath dates.
AAB for Bath (with his epq) and BBB for Surrey. ABB for York (with epq). Waiting on 2 more.

While I think that too many 18 year olds are pushed into going to university, it is extremely unusual to have a 6th form where most students don't go into higher education. Is it a poor performing school?

Its a state school in a market town in East Anglia.The 6th Form cohort this year is small, there are only about 35 kids in total. But many are going into family jobs, some are going into the army, some are doing apprenticeships and very few have applied to Uni. There is DS, 2 girls applied to Oxford, 1 has applied for medicine and another couple of boys applied elsewhere.

That is a tiny 6th form @mrsconradfisher . I hope your DS manages to get into his first choice of university. Good luck with his A levels.

@mrsconradfisher
Hope ofsted don’t turn up. They hate low number 6th forms as they are poor value for money. However if they have Oxford candidates, school should know what they are doing!!

Exeter is good for Sports Science with Psychology. Also Swansea works closely with Swansea football club.

UEA doesn't do Sports science - their sports degree is basically teacher training.

He’s already applied so unless he does decline all offers and goes through UCAS extra, he can’t look at anywhere else. He did look at Exeter and again I don’t think that’s a joint honours. It’s either Sports Science or Sports Psychology, not both together. Unless I’m totally wrong, tbh he looked at so many I’ve lost track.
Yep that was the reason he was unsure of UEA. He applied cause it’s literally 40 mins down the road and could commute if he wanted to. Plus tbh, their talk was significantly more inspiring that the lack lustre one at Birmingham. But in hindsight that’s a wasted option cause he isn’t likely to go there.
I think he should have waited until after Christmas and apply with mock results in hand and made better choices but it is what it is unless he does the UCAS extra thing and decline everything.

Birmingham is excellent for Sports Science.

Sit tight for the Loughborough one

My DS applied with predicted A -star AA and had an offer for A-star** AA

On the day he got his A levels, his grades were AAB

Yet they still offered him the place

Lots of Uni's will offer even if you have lower grades than they demand

So I'd wait to hear from L'boro, and if no offer you can always make plans for clearing

Neither of my DDs made choices on the talk of one lecturer. I’ve no doubt Birmingham fill their courses. It’s not easy looking for courses universities don’t offer. That’s why he’s going round in circles. They all do some psychology. Going in with fixed ideas makes a student hard to please. The courses presumably suit most applicants. I’m not sure his research has been that great and I would wait for offers. Then visit on offer holder days. Then decline if they don’t suit after offer holders day.

What advantage is there in UCAS extra? Where would have places? Nowhere he wants I would guess.