Declining all offers?

[mrsconradfisher]

Will try to keep this as brief as possible. DS1 has applied for 5 courses at 4 different Uni’s. The Uni he really wants, he has applied for 2 courses but really is only likely to want to do one of them. Don’t ask me why he did it like that, he applied early under pressure from 6th form and he is now doubting all his choices.
He currently has offers from Birmingham of ABB (predicted AAA), Surrey (BBB) and UEA (for ABB) but it’s not exactly the course he wants to do but it’s our local Uni.
He really wants Loughborough, it’s Sports Science he’s applying for. Problem is they have said they only take applicants with A A A (said at open day) and he hasn’t heard anything yet. We’ve just had his updated predicted grades after his mocks and they’ve now been updated to A A A so assume with those grades he would get an offer. Trouble is he can’t do anything about it now as the application has been submitted.
He wants to wait until he heard from Loughborough and then if there is no offer, reject the lot and apply for a completely different course on UCAS extra.
Im trying to convince him to go for Birmingham but was very underwhelmed at the Open Day, they are surrounded by top tier football clubs yet they have no direct links and don’t do a placement year which seems crazy for a Sports Science degree.

Is that a really ridiculous idea? I think he is just wobbling about the whole thing, he wants Loughborough and I’m not sure anything else will be right!

I’ve no doubt you are trying to help but I’m fully aware (as is he) that he perhaps should have done more research. It’s very difficult applying to Uni for the first time (and no neither me or DH went either) with limited support from 6th Form. He looked at virtually every course he could find and we visited many many Uni’s. Clearly he won’t make the decision based on 1 talk, however the point I’m making is for a Russell Group Uni the talk was very uninspiring (which was echoed by other parents there) whereas so called lesser Uni’s have better connections and better talks cause quite frankly it’s all the students have to go on.
He really isn’t hard to please at all, he just doesn’t want to waste 3 years and a huge amount of money at a Uni he doesn’t 100% want to be at.
If he declined all offers he would apply for Sports Science with Psychology (now he knows it exists) at Newcastle.
I have already said he has offers from everywhere apart from Loughborough. And yes he will go to the offer holder days (apart from UEA as it’s pointless). Fully appreciate that all the Sports Science courses have some Psychology but he really wanted to do both.

Ahh thank you, that sounds promising. I think it’s just because at the open day they basically said they are so oversubscribed that they will only take students who get 2 A stars and an A so he is thinking he won’t even get an offer so is planning a Plan B (hence the question about UCAS Extra)

for a Russell Group Uni the talk was very uninspiring (which was echoed by other parents there) whereas so called lesser Uni’s have better connections and better talks

The more competitive universities select students. The less competitive ones try harder because they want students to select them. I wouldn't let this put you off. Going to the offer holder days gives a much better idea of what it will be like to study at each university.

I'm biased, but Newcastle is a great city to be a student in.

So he’s found one course at Newcastle. Do they have enough hall space for students coming via the Extra route?

I really do think there’s a lot of help on line. I didn’t go to university. What he is doing though is fixating on a course that appears rare. Therefore most people would advise that he does need other options. You might want to study Maths and Gaelic but you might not find it. So a certain amount of pragmatism is needed.

Joint honours reduces what you study for each subject. He needs to look at detailed subject content. What job does he want? Is the Psychology degree accredited? What value does it add? What, in the sports science element is he giving up? It will be reduced to accommodate the psychology. My DD did joint honours and obviously it’s not the full curriculum (options usually) for both subjects.

Many sports science grads don’t earn a lot. Many don’t get grad level jobs at all, so what are his plans? Yes, 3 years is important but what then? I think he’s splitting hairs on content and it’s easy to say he’s not had guidance but you say he’s spent ages on this and seems to have gone down rabbit holes. I had to
learn about this too as have many of us. Other PPs suggest he hangs on for Loughborough. Why not? Also why do you think RG should deliver better talks? You could argue strongly they have plenty of great students to choose from. The bums on seats universities often do the hard sell.

@TizerorFizz not sure if you're confusing Extra with Clearing? I think it's a relatively new system UCAS introduced for those who don't get any offers from their original 5 application, so there is not the same delay that you get with clearing.

OP - I thought extra was only available if you had no offers rather than rejecting offers and then having none?

Has your DS checked to see if he would be entitled to contextual offers? If his school doesn't have lots of pupils going to uni in normal years then it might be the case that he could get reduced offers from some unis. Have a search round on the Loughborough website.

Despite others scepticism, I think it is quite common for 17 yos to be panicked into making the wrong choices on their UCAS forms, being put off perfectly acceptable choices by minor things at open days and fixating on small elements of a course description not being 'right'. Most find their way eventually. There is clearing once they have their grades, or reapplying later. Even if they don't go the next year, there is no time limit. A bit of real life experience can do wonders in term of growing up and helping in making such important decisions.

@Seeline
Yes. I stand corrected.

I have suggested that all the course details are considered and minor points such as a single lecturer are not indicative of a whole course. Yes Dc make mistakes but all 5 sounds too many, especially as if includes Loughborough and others in the top 10 for the subject.

He hasn’t made 5 mistakes. He wants Loughborough and used 2 choices to try and get there. He also wanted Birmingham (and still does assuming the Offer holder day gives better information) So that’s 3 solid choices. The “mistakes” are UEA and Surrey.
He is waiting for Loughborough to respond, I’ve already said that. This was just a plan B if he gets rejected from Loughborough and then Plan C is a gap year working.
UCAS extra is not clearing. It’s 2 completely different things. It’s if you have no offers and also if you decide to reject them all. You get 1 choice then if you don’t get an offer for that you can try another.
Honestly I mean this in the politest way but you are completely missing the point I’m making about Birmingham. It was not tiny points about the course, it was the entire course talk from a lecturer who seemed to have no clue what he was actually talking about and seemed completely uninterested in discussing the course with the potential students. They weren’t even allowed to see the labs (which every other sports science course we have been to allowed us into). The whole thing was just really odd. Whether it’s a RG or not the talk should at least inspire the students to attend.
He was undecided about Sports Science degrees or Sports Psychology in the first place but went for Sports Science as didn’t want to only focus on the psychological aspect. The 2 are heavily linked so it’s not like doing 2 completely separate courses. I’m surprised that not more Uni’s offer a joint honours tbh.
This post was to simply ask if anyone had done it this way to try to gain as much information whilst waiting for Loughborough to respond.
Yes he hasn’t made the best decisions but he is 17. He is doubting everything at the moment with his A levels looming as these are the first exams this cohort will have taken. He may end up with less than great grades and we will then have to have a plan D. Honestly not sure why I’m getting such a hard time, just trying to help him.

As far as I understand it, it’s mainly for those without offers but he spoke to UCAS and they said he can decline them all but to speak to his other Uni choice first to see the likely good of being offered a place.
We tried the contextual offer route but although the school fits the criteria, our postcode isn’t. He got a low offer from Birmingham (ABB)as he is doing all 3 of the a levels that they prefer (PE, Geography and Psychology) but Loughborough don’t offer that.

@mrsconradfisher
I rather refute you are having a hard time. However working out plan B, C and D is challenging! Why not stick to see if 3 offers come in? As nearly everyone has said. Just he sure you think joint courses should be offered, doesn’t mean academics have to agree with you. Nearly all our DC were 17 when they applied. Mine has an August birthday and it wax early closing, so 17 by 2 months. All universities visited when she was 16. It’s just how it is. I also don’t why he needs all these alternative plans and options. As others have said, see what he gets, reject all, do a gap year and start again. I would make that plan B and stuff C and D. Step back and wait. Patience not panic.

Is it worth contacting Loughborough admissions and asking if he can update his predicted grades on his application?

Otherwise I think your ds should try to sit tight and not panic. I think the reason you’re going round in circles is that you’re trying to come up with plans based on information you don’t have. So wait to hear from Loughborough and then decide what to do.

I will say that I find it strange that your ds thinks if he takes a gap year that he might not want to go. He sounds very committed and interested, so I’m not sure why that would be the case. If he gets a job in a related field and still decides he doesn’t want to pursue further study maybe it was the wrong thing in the first place.

That’s actually a really good idea about contacting Loughborough. I will get him to do that after Christmas (I’m assuming no one will be there now).
Yes he will definitely wait to here from them before doing anything but he is expecting a rejection after what they said on the Open Day so he wanted an idea of what to do next.

I think the reason he thinks he might not go after a gap year is because he is the only one out of his entire friendship group with any desire to go to Uni including his girlfriend of nearly 4 years so they are all going to be together here and he won’t be, it’s different if everyone goes as you are all in the same situation. Tbh I think he is just questioning and doubting everything at the moment!

I really hope he gets in! It must be really tough if its not normal for his friends to go.

My dd wants to do exactly the same course at Loughborough and I'd be amazed if she's predicted anywhere near A star AA 😕 time for some management of expectations i think!!

I know Loughborough university very well. Its one of their flagship courses and as such its very hard to get an offer unless you're at the top of their requirements list. if you have lower grades than they ask for then your chances are slim since applications way outstrip places on the course.

Loughborough is one of the easier top ten universities to get into for non sport related courses. They are deliberately trying to encourage a broader range of students and move away from the sporty stereotype. It's far trickier to get in for sport related courses.

The questioning and doubting phase is tough

i’d steer him to reassuring that his choices are solid, and to wait and see and decide once he has all offers/rejections in place

then he can go to more open days/offer holder days, then he can wait and see what his grades are. Then decided on where to go

you say you are new to this, so let me just say that having a real offer from a decent Uni is very exciting, and that moving away to Uni is usually a very positive thing too

my DS1 had his friendship group and his long term girlfriend who he left behind, but in the summer of A levels that all fell apart anyway. One joined the army, one went on gap year abroad, the relationship with the girlfriend fell apart (kids change a lot between 15 snd 18) , another went to Uni after all etc etc

things will change anyway

the idea that whilst he goes to Uni, everyone else will stay the same is an illusion

That rarely happens

Thank you. It’s tough as I know that they have to have a cut off somewhere but being predicted A star grades when they haven’t even done exams before is hard going. Everyone is in the same boat though I suppose. There is another course that he has applied for there which is slightly different, it’s Sports Science PE and Coaching with lower grade requirements but he really wants the pure Sports Science.

Yep that’s pretty much what they said. He is also not an elite athlete so won’t get in that way either. He has also applied for the Sports Science, PE and coaching course there which I’m more hopeful of an offer but it feels like taking the wrong course to get to a specific uni which seems a bit pointless.
I just wish he’d waited as his predicted grades are now 2 A stars and an A so may have been ok.

Actually I don’t think it’s pointless wanting a “lower” course at Loughborough. It’s the “name” university in this field. So why does he think the lower tariff course isn’t a good idea? I would look at selection criteria though. Do they publish tie breaker criteria?

There are thousands and thousands of sports science grads and even more psychology grads. Having been to a recognised top 10 uni is worth something. Lots of young people seek to do that. Dc can be lucky and find that a course is 100% what they want. Lots make compromises. As they go through a course, they change their minds. Explore different things. Get inspired to follow different routes to employment etc. A 17 year old doesn’t know it all but university helps them make employment and study decisions. It’s how they grow up.

I think a lot of the questions that @TizerorFizz poses are very pertinent. I'm the poster who said above that I thought your DS had done a good job in selecting his universities, and I stand by that opinion, but does he have any idea what he wants to do after university?

Why the interest in psychology, for example? Because there are other routes into that area of sport. For example he could do a sports science under-grad at one of his other choices (the Surrey course offers psychology modules in both Years 2 and 3) and then do an MSc in sports psychology at Loughborough. Does your DS ultimately want to get into sports psychology?

The Sports Science, Coaching and PE degree is something completely different – it is really geared towards those who want to coach one or more sports that they themselves play (usually to a highish level), or who want to become school PE teachers. There's really no point taking that course if your DS has no interest in coaching or teaching. Sorry, but that is the honest truth from someone whose DS is a sports coach and PT.

Sorry cross posts with @TizerorFizz. Usually I would agree with her that getting into a top university in its field via a course with a lower offer is a good idea, but not in this instance – the coaching and PE course is called that for a reason, it is geared to people who want to coach or teach. The module titles may look similar but they will all have a teaching slant to them – take it from someone who has 2 members of her immediate family working in this field.

I think it’s more the tone the questions were asked in tbh. I’ve got a huge amount going on in my personal life at the moment (Parent with vascular dementia trying to find a nursing home if she actually makes it out of hospital) and I’m trying to do my best to guide my son through a world I know nothing about. Just feel totally overwhelmed and don’t know which way to turn. I think I took the tone of the posts to heart a bit like they were almost an attack on my DS, I know they weren’t but at the moment it’s just too much.

In regards to what he wants to do after Uni, he would love to work at a football or any other sports club. He loves Psychology and I think ultimately would want to be a sports psychologist but he also loves the science and physiology side of sport too.
Ultimately do all kids attending Uni know exactly what they want to do afterwards? Unless you do medicine, law etc?
The sports psychology MSc at Loughborough sounds a great idea however he was under the assumption from the open day that was only possible if he does the Sports Psychology degree not the Sports Science one but he may got the wrong end of the stick. He looked at that too at Loughborough.
I agree about the Sports Science, PE and Coaching there, it’s no point as that’s not what he wants to do. He put it down in an attempt to get there but it’s not going to achieve anything.

@thing47
I respect your greater knowledge of sport science. Also I want to apologise for being rude to you a few days ago.

@mrsconradfisher
As this is largely a vocational degree, yes, some Dc will know. It’s not history or English. It’s a science with a very specific title. Look at what alumni do. Also bear in mind that modules and further study go down the employment route of choice as does the dissertation.

As I said, university is a chance to explore different avenues. He’s clearly got an idea about what to study so he must have reasons why. Is it job related? Has he looked at what others do with these different degrees?

I think football attracts sports scientists from all over the world. At least where the big money is. It’s career planning where he needs plan B but university can provide that. Teaching is not a bad plan B!

I shouldn't worry, tone is sometimes hard to convey, or to pick up, when reading messages from people you don't know, but I'm sure everyone on here is only trying to help.

No, of course loads of our DCs don't know exactly what they want to do after university, but asking these sorts of questions may help you and your DS to narrow it down a little bit? It sounds like you are very aware that the Coaching and PE course isn't right for your DS which is good – sometimes ruling things out is as useful as ruling things in, in terms of working out what you want to do :)

One of my DS's friends did Sports Science BSc (at either Bath or Exeter, I can't remember which) and then Sports Psychology MSc at Loughborough – that's anecdote rather than data, but that is something which would be quite easy for your DS to check.

@TizerorFizz
No apologies necessary, water under the bridge. But that's very gracious of you all the same.

@mrsconradfisher
I think we're making progress – your DS DOES know what he'd like to do, he'd like to work at a sports club, preferably a football club, right? That's his ideal job so he should keep that in the back of his mind though as @TizerorFizz rightly says, it's hugely competitive and also you're competing in a global marketplace these days – top football clubs recruit from all over the world, not just players but coaches and support staff too.

From what you have told us on here, I would strongly urge him to stick with a more general Sports Science degree first up as that keeps many more options open. He can always specialise in psychology later if that is still his main interest and he can choose it as his dissertation topic too.

Thank you that’s really helpful. I will definitely get him to investigate the MSc Psychology route further. Fingers crossed we hear from Loughborough soon.
Its this but about being a parent that they don’t warn you about, I think I’d rather go back to sleepless nights and toddler tantrums!