An Oxbridge tale

[latefloweringcrysanthemum]

I watch the conversations about this year Oxbridge application round with a professional interest but also very difficult as my DC was accepted a few years ago . It was my DC dream to go and as a family we were overjoyed and so proud. However , DC struggled with what we now realise were MH issues and eventually was withdrawn from the university. It was not very long ago, but MH was only just being talked about and I am sure now that there would be a much better understanding of DC's extreme anxiety. As a family we were devastated, as like all of you, we had invested so much in her success. DC new this and thus found it very difficult to admit that there were problems. Not academic but organisational etc. Family bereavement followed after this event and DC I am sure blames themselves for this in some way. DC has gone on to get a first class degree at another University but the trauma remains. So watch your DC very carefully and do not place too much on this Oxbridge goal. You may say you do not but as with all one cannot avoid it! My dearest wish is that I could have understood and supported and that the University could reach out to her even today. A silly wish I Know!

Are 3 A* enough for Oxbridge or do you need to be able to ‘perform’? I imagine the interviews will favour the bright, sparky, immediately engaging, confident candidate, rather than the bright, but light-very-much-hidden-under-a-bushel personality. Can Oxbridge ever be the right place for an introvert? My suspicion is not, but also that any university environment might be a challenge, in that case.

@watcherintherye my STEM subject seems to attract many introverts and I don’t think Oxbridge students are an exception. So I think the interviews, at least in some subjects, make allowances for different personality types. Also in many subjects there will be some written work, which may help introverts.

@ohyoubadbadkitten has a DD who was very successful doing Maths at Cambridge and knows something about their admissions interviews. Perhaps she and others will have more information about your very interesting question

Hi Poetry thanks for the tag, I've just seen it.

@watcherintherye my dd would probably fall under your description of being quiet. I dont think admissions tutors are looking for the confident 'sparky' types - the sort of person I meet sometimes from private schools who have been taught to be that way. They just want people who are going to do really well in their subject.

DD did her own thing, in her own way and once we learned to realise that you dont have to be into parties, may balls, rowing, choir and/or debating to have an enjoyable and fulfilling time at C, she settled in well and enjoyed her time there.

From the point of view of STEM, a fair number of students there are neurodiverse and its the first time for many that they can find they can stand alone but together at a do of some sort without feeling out of place or awkward.

From the point of view of STEM, a fair number of students there are neurodiverse

In that context they are probably ‘neurotypical’

Can you explain what you mean please Shelefttheweb

I would agree with comments but still say that there is a tendency in this discssion to second guess to what extent a DC will "fit in" and somehow maximise the chances that they succeed in application. The point made above is the most valid and pertinant, that is how excellent the student will be in the subject chosen. For Tutorial and essay based subjects, in reality, an academic wants an undergraduate who will walk in and immediately participate in critical analysis. To be brutal, in an eight week term there is not a lot of time to wait for them to come out of their shell. Having said this even a socially shy student will, if they have the intellectual hunger, participate in the subject they are passionate about.

Diversity is a group measure - a population is diverse, an individual can’t be. An individual who sits away from the mode may be called ‘divergent’. All the individuals who get into Oxbridge are divergent from the rest of the population however most are typical of those who get into Oxbridge. If we consider autism (what most people think of when they say ‘neurodiverse’) then when you look at certain STEM courses it is likely that autism may actually be a common - typical - feature of those on the course.

I went to Cambridge, I did well there but I didn’t love the experience. Didn’t hate it either, but I’m a very urban person and I always knew I would’ve had a lot more fun in a more urban university – somewhere like Manchester. I found my college was full of braying men and I never enjoyed the collegiate environment- entirely personal, for others it would be ideal. It certainly wasn’t the happiest days of my life and I think it’s a big mistake to tell students that that is what they must be experiencing.

Sheleft that is an excellent summary.

My youngest DD withdrew her Cambridge offer this year just before the interview. She has seen first hand the damage that has been done to family members and friends studying there.Also she fully wants to join in the whole uni experience, lots of societies and fun as well as working hard.

@realmsofglory what is your dd's observations on the damage being done?

It's very easy to make generalisations from individual experiences. Throwing my own DD's current experience into the ring, I think she would probably have found her choice of degree course challenging during the Covid years at any of her 5 choices alongside personal issues.

She has received excellent support from her tutors and the welfare team in her Oxford college. This is probably because everyone knows everyone else and tutorials are 1 to 1 or 1 to 3 max. I'm relieved that they chose her and she was able to go there, as I think she would have fallen under the radar at her 4 other choices.

Agree neurotypical for Stem might be different in other subjects.

Great answer @Shelefttheweb . I probably would have just said ' one finds ones tribe eventually'.