Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Pathway to teaching which isn't full time Uni?

70 replies

llynnnn · 02/12/2022 13:52

Hi all

DD1 is in year 12 now and would love to be a primary school teacher, however she isn't sold on the idea of moving away to university for many reasons, and wonders if there is an alternate route into becoming a qualified teacher? Is there an apprenticeship, or path she can take which works up within a school, from TA to teacher whilst working?

She is trying to get an appointment with the careers advisor at college, however they are, understandably, busy with the year 13's at the moment

Thanks in advance :)

OP posts:
TizerorFizz · 02/12/2022 14:12

There are Teacher apprenticeships. They are for graduates. Career changes mostly. She would be lucky to get a TA job at 18 with no experience, in my view. It would take her a long long time to be a teacher. The quick route is still degree and teacher training either with the school or one year at university. Teachers mostly now have degrees. Working your way up is difficult I think.

The other big issue is that from 18 with no degree, the school would be giving her a lot of time off to study. They wouldn’t see that as value for money I suspect. Most people do go
to university who want to teach and this gives them great subject knowledge, even at primary. It’s a bit limiting not to go. What does she have against going to university?

Original poster
llynnnn · 02/12/2022 14:20

Thank you for your reply, I thought this may be the case.

She is just ready to get stuck in I think! She finished her GCSE's then the week after started volunteer work at a local primary school, she's now back at the same primary school volunteering twice a week around her A Levels as part of the College's teaching academy programme and she is just loving it!

She is also having doubts about university as she'd have to live away (due to our location not being near any great universities) and she isn't the most confident in that respect...however I am well aware that these life skills from living independently would make her a greater teacher...! She also wants to earn money, and try to avoid student debts :)

OP posts:
MarianneVos · 02/12/2022 14:23

Open university and working with children while she does her degree?

mdh2020 · 02/12/2022 14:57

I’d second the idea of OU - its excellent.

GoingtotheWinchester · 02/12/2022 14:59

I don’t know where you live but the SE is absolutely crying out for TAs - she would be snapped up! If she’s crazy enough to go into teaching after spending a few weeks in a primary school then all power to her 😄.

AlanDavidson · 02/12/2022 15:04

Yes, it's not difficult to get a TA post any more, at least not in cities. Especially if she's willing to support a particular student with extra learning needs.

The mums for whom these posts used to be like gold dust can no longer afford to work such part time hours on such poor wages. But for an 18 year old living at home, it's fine.

Skiphopbump · 02/12/2022 15:12

If she did a primary school teaching degree she would have placements so wouldn’t just be studying.
You state you aren’t near any great universities- is there a local one that has a primary teaching degree?

TizerorFizz · 02/12/2022 15:47

I’m not aware of these posts being difficult to fill. I’m in SE. Parents love the holidays. TAs are nearly all part time. However there is still a massive step from TA at 18 to a qualified teacher who needs a degree.

@llynnnn
You need to talk to DD about university loans too! They really are not debt of the bank loan type! As a NQT, she’s not likely to pay much back every month. Nor as a young teacher. As a senior teacher it would ramp up. If she ever works part time, diddly squat! However she’s more likely to become a teacher with a decent salary much more quickly bbc with a standard degree. The OU is lonely! No university friends or societies. Just work. If it’s just about misunderstanding the loan system, why couldn’t she go to university? Who pays for the OU degree? Which can take 6 years. Then she needs further study to get to NQT. Then she has to pass her NQT year. The very slow route to earning decent money.

When I was a governor, I was impressed with the quality of our NQTs. I cannot think of one who came through as a TA at 18. I think in schools today you need to demonstrate wider skills than just working in a classroom. Teaching is quite a tight discipline now with assessment, subject knowledge, performance review, classroom discipline and behaviour, curriculum changes, etc so I would not be sure schools would invest £££on an unproven 18 year old to move on to NQT. It’s a big gamble for a school to take and most don’t.

Original poster
llynnnn · 02/12/2022 16:06

Thanks all, lots of food for thought there.

Our nearest uni offering teaching is a good hours drive away, with no easy train/bus route. I would love for her to grab the bull by the horns and be excited about university life, however thinking back to my 18 year old self I also didn't feel ready to move away then and was fed up with full time studying/exams and ready for earning and work (but then I also didn't have aspirations of a certain professional career...)

OP posts:
SilverSalver · 02/12/2022 16:11

The thing is for primary teaching it doesn't have to be a great university. It's a bit like medicine IMO once you qualify you are a teacher.
A friend's DD was like yours, wanted to teach primary and wasn't keen on uni. Anyway she did go, to the nearest possible uni an hour away, so she could come home and travel a bit. Plus placements were often nearer to home and she could travel to them from home.
She's now teaching at a school near home and loves it.

SilverSalver · 02/12/2022 16:12

Just to add that she would be well advised to learn to drive asap.

badgerhead · 02/12/2022 16:13

St Mary's University in Twickenham do a work based Primary Education Foundation Degree which you can then top up to a full degree with QTS, all over 4 years in total. Your daughter needs to have worked in a school for at least a year before applying and then be working for at least 2.5 days a week in a school. My dd is interested in this (she is HLTA qualified and works as an Early Years TA) and we visited the uni last week to find out more. It sounds really good and she is definitely more interested in following this route as it means she can carry on working and study simultaneously. Have a look on their website for more details. They said they have students from all over the south east and even as far as Leamington Spa. You need to attend the Uni one day a week with a 2nd school placement being arranged by the Uni as close to home as they can, your 1st placement can be at your place of work.

Singleandproud · 02/12/2022 16:13

I'm unfamiliar with Primary schools but options at Secondary schools which will probably be similar include:
OU degree (she could do this PT whilst working in a school or nursery)

Then either:
PGCE, teacher apprenticeship or become a cover supervisor or instructor (unqualified teacher) and get experience in the classroom and go the assessment only route or SCITT.

There are many websites detailing different routes into teaching. If she goes the OU way her degree will need to be in a national curriculum subject I think not in youth studies or similar.

Original poster
llynnnn · 02/12/2022 16:36

@badgerhead that course sounds like a great idea, unfortunately we are a long way from London...

driving is definitely on the urgent list as soon as she can as it will open so many doors for her

thanks again all!

OP posts:
badgerhead · 02/12/2022 16:38

When we were looking we searched works based primary education degrees and if I remember correctly one came up at Edgehill University in Birmingham as well if that helps.

Puffalicious · 02/12/2022 17:05

Sorry, but I'm of the opinion that you should have a degree to teach. In Scotland you must have a degree in primart educational or a relevant degree + PGCE; in secondary a degree in what you teach + a PGCE. It ensures professional, highly-qualified staff. There are NO circumstances under which a TA (PSAs here) can teach any child/ class, it must be a fully qualified teacher.

We recently had a student from England in my secondary school who was appalled by how robust the PGCE is. I think she thought it would be a tick-box exercise. She's withdrawal from the course as it was too demanding.

Your daughter can't just waltz into a school and think 'I fancy teaching straight away', it doesn't work like that. That is an insult to the years of training and experience that goes into making a truly good teacher (28 years personally).

Teaching apprenticeship? The more I hear about systems in England, the more I despair.

Puffalicious · 02/12/2022 17:07

*primary education

spanieleyes · 02/12/2022 17:10

@Puffalicious

A teaching apprenticeship is post graduate. It is the QTS part that is technically the apprentice part, you still need a degree!

Puffalicious · 02/12/2022 17:20

spanieleyes · 02/12/2022 17:10

@Puffalicious

A teaching apprenticeship is post graduate. It is the QTS part that is technically the apprentice part, you still need a degree!

Ah, I misunderstood due to the OP asking about them for her younger daughter.

Why can't it just be a PGCE, why an apprenticeship?

spanieleyes · 02/12/2022 17:29

The apprenticeship is similar to SCITT, you are employed by the school, earn a nominal salary, attend university 2 days a week and receive QTS at the end.

Puffalicious · 02/12/2022 17:34

spanieleyes · 02/12/2022 17:29

The apprenticeship is similar to SCITT, you are employed by the school, earn a nominal salary, attend university 2 days a week and receive QTS at the end.

I don't know what SCITT is, here we can only qualify via a PGCE. It's robust and challenging. I'd be worried the apprenticeship would be less so and/or exploitative expecting candidates to teach classes like a qualified teacher with limited/ no in- school support.

RobinRobinMouse · 02/12/2022 17:39

I did a part time PGCE through Bath Spa, I think other places do them too. For the very short time you are at uni it is only 3 days a week so an hours commute would be doable. The vast majority of the time is in the classroom and these spots are allocated where possible within half an hour of a student's home. However you do need to have a degree before you start at this level, perhaps she could do a part time degree somewhere while she works and gets some experience with children (TA etc).

napody · 02/12/2022 17:50

Skiphopbump · 02/12/2022 15:12

If she did a primary school teaching degree she would have placements so wouldn’t just be studying.
You state you aren’t near any great universities- is there a local one that has a primary teaching degree?

This would be my recommendation too.
Found OU fantastic for my masters but not for an 18 year old.

WindyHedges · 02/12/2022 17:50

Why would we in any way tolerate the idea that teachers don't need a high level of education and qualification? Our children deserve the best we can offer in their education.

Your DD might need a few years to mature if she's not ready at 18, to move away from home. Or she could look at a university with suitable degrees within commuting distance.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 02/12/2022 17:52

There's no route from TA to qualified classroom teacher without getting an undergrad degree. It's very common for students to not feel ready for or not fancy uni at the start of y12 but be keen by y13 or after a gap year.

A primary ed degree will involve lots of placements and feel very hands on