Pathway to teaching which isn't full time Uni?

[llynnnn]

Hi all

DD1 is in year 12 now and would love to be a primary school teacher, however she isn't sold on the idea of moving away to university for many reasons, and wonders if there is an alternate route into becoming a qualified teacher? Is there an apprenticeship, or path she can take which works up within a school, from TA to teacher whilst working?

She is trying to get an appointment with the careers advisor at college, however they are, understandably, busy with the year 13's at the moment

Thanks in advance :)

@Galarunner

I suspect many just don’t care which is sad.

It's many, many more than people realise. I have said this before on here.
@badgerhead St Mary's is lovely. I know a ton of people who have been there and have gone on to be brilliant teachers. My brother did history there and cousin did his masters.
The facilities are amazing.
I am all for getting into teaching using unorthodox methods as it shows those who can really teach in a difficult school. By working from the bottom up.
My partner is now SLT. He started as a pastoral manager and went to uni (sponsored by the school) once a week. It took four years and he qualified.
My stepdaughter is doing the same thing in a special ed school.
University is not always the answer at 18. Experience counts for a lot.

100% agree with this.

@Invizicat I disagree that university is the only way to achieve this.

They must have English and Maths gcse grade 4 to be a TA.

A colleague of mine started off as an apprentice TA after A levels. They are now studying primary teaching part time at Edge Hill Uni - working full time as a TA and attending Uni 1 evening a week.

I don't think uni is the only way to achieve this either. But I do think that if someone is not confident enough to go to uni because they don't want to leave their parental home they might struggle with teaching.
That's why I suggested leaving the teaching idea for a few years and working in other things first, gain maturity, gain confidence and then look at routes to teaching, uni or otherwise.

If you read my post, you'll see I said qualified, as in having QTS.

It's true that in an academy or free school, you can teach as an unqualified teacher, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to. As you say, they're cheap for the school- starting salary is just over £19,000 and the maximum you can earn after 6 rounds of pay progression (not guaranteed to happen yearly) is just over £30,000. An ECT will be earning a comparable wage in their second year of teaching (just about £300 less), by their third year of teaching, they will be earning more.

The career progression for unqualified teachers is generally rubbish- I've never known an employer allow them to hold a TLR, or progress into any form of middle leadership. You're also potentially only employable in that school, or that MAT, so if they choose to mess you around, or reduce your hours, or similar, you're stuck.

I've also seen a situation where a MAT took over a struggling school and replaced all the unqualified teachers with qualified ones (the number of unqualified teachers was mentioned on their OFSTED, I believe) and the unqualified teachers were made redundant- this couldn't happen to qualified classroom teachers in the same way.

So, yes, it's possible to teach a class without having any qualifications, but I'm really not sure why anyone would put themselves in the position of doing a job for poor pay and less good working conditions, when you could suck up 3 years at uni, and go into the profession on a higher salary than you'd be on after 3 years as an unqualfied teacher?

If she does a dedicated teaching degree (i.e. a 4 year course rather than a normal degree plus a year PGCE) she will be doing placements right from the start, so can very much 'get stuck in' if that's what she's looking for.

I'd suggest OU for a degree in a curriculum subject she is good at while working in a school if possible. Then Primary PGCE to follow.

OU is so lonely for an 18 year old. It was never designed for that purpose.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

Yep I do agree with all of that. It’s certainly preferable to gain QTS.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

I don’t think it would be possible for my SIL to complete a degree. Without sounding really horrible, she’s not the brightest. I have NO idea how she manages to teach year 3 (seriously no idea when she struggles to construct a basic email) so yes it is a source of fascination to me.

She is vulnerable job wise and totally at the mercy of her particular head of school (who also isn’t a qualified teacher but did lead the nursery school in a sister school in the trust, and managed to get it to outstanding). The trust itself is corrupt though I’ve googled it, it made national news a couple of years ago for dodgy dealings, but I don’t wish to be too outing.

Free schools, academies snd independent schools can have heads without QTS. Highly unusual for others. In my view it’s wrong. Heads need to monitor teaching and understand classroom management and the curriculum plus lots of other areas requiring teaching expertise. Not sure teachers respect a non teacher as a head. People of course change careers but they should still get qualified to lead.

I haven’t read the full thread so apologise if I’m repeating anything.

Op, her best bet I would say in this situation is work as a TA - say 3 days a week and do an OU degree over 3/4 years. 3 years is full time but depending on work, it may take her a bit longer. I teach secondary so our degree needs to (ideally) be in the subject we teach, especially as we go up to A Level which requires deep knowledge. However, in primary, there may be more flexibility in the degree. She can study online and work and gain experience. Low debt and good work experience. As soon as she graduates, she can look at school based training. Teach first is one provider but you can research what is local to you (there will 100% be something). They do all training and provide you a school to be based in. In the meantime, when studying, she can do her driving license so she can get to placement schools as the provider will cover a wider area. She will likely get paid to train so that also saves money on fees. If she can live at home throughout, that would be ideal.

Please be wary of any advice that says you don’t need a degree and/or you can do apprenticeship style training as this is not my experience at all.

Good luck to your dd. It’s fine if she’s not ready to leave home. There are always options available to her if she’s hard working and determined.

There were young people doing Open University when I did my degree. She can do a part time degree and work full time, or a full time degree (but I'd suggest only working part time with that) and then decide if she still wants to go into teaching, or something else. It would be a good idea to work in a school if she can, to get a good feel for the kind of work it is.

We have 2 young TAs at my school that are both doing the accelerated 2 year primary education degree at ARU.

aru.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/primary-education-studies

One works 4 days a week at school and devotes 1 day to university work. All the lectures are online so she is basically self teaching and having limited contact time. She says she learns more being in the classroom. The other is a TA 2 days a week and devotes 3 days to university.

Both are starting on SCITT courses in September to get QTS.

No, I totally get it- that all sounds pretty concerning. I do think Ofsted are going after dodgy MATs more and more, which does potentially leave someone like your Sister-In-Law in a very vulnerable position. Although it does sound perhaps like she may not be suited to a classroom teacher role.

I get that for individuals, it can work at a particular point in time, but it's not a position I'd choose for myself (or my child) if I had any other options.

@User135792468 teaching apprenticeships are essentially like Schools Direct, just a bit rebranded- you still need a degree before you can start one!

An alternative to TA plus OU could be any degree apprenticeship followed by school based teacher training. If your dd likes working with young people, maybe a degree apprenticeship in social work or childcare/early years could be an option, or even nursing.