Pathway to teaching which isn't full time Uni?

[llynnnn]

Hi all

DD1 is in year 12 now and would love to be a primary school teacher, however she isn't sold on the idea of moving away to university for many reasons, and wonders if there is an alternate route into becoming a qualified teacher? Is there an apprenticeship, or path she can take which works up within a school, from TA to teacher whilst working?

She is trying to get an appointment with the careers advisor at college, however they are, understandably, busy with the year 13's at the moment

Thanks in advance :)

I also didn't feel ready to move away then and was fed up with full time studying/exams and ready for earning and work

This is a perfectly reasonable way to feel @llynnnn after 12-13 of the current children/teen education treadmill. I think a break from formal education is a really good thing - I teach so many undergrads who are exhausted by their education, but can't think to step off the treadmill.

Maybe your DD should aim to work for a couple of years, and do some volunteering in an area related to children (Brownie pack? Scouts? Beavers?) and then in a couple of years, she can aim for a great Primary Ed degree with an admirable level of maturity. She'll know that she 's really chosen to be there.

As pps have said teaching is a graduate only profession in England too.
Bizarre jumping to the conclusion that a pgce student found the course challenging because they'd been to an English secondary school.... pgces are rigorous (and lose a fair number of students) in England too. SCITT is possibly less academically demanding but no less so in terms of teaching standards. Definitely not a tick box... a steep learning curve.
I do admire Scotland's refusal to exploit TAs by making them teach whole classes though, I'll give you that. And you do seem to have more respect for teachers as a country.... but that's not because your teachers are better trained, it's because disrespecting teachers in England is ideological/political.

You can do a foundation degree whilst working as a TA then a top up like this one, www.shu.ac.uk/courses/teaching-and-education/ba-honours-teaching-and-learning-in-primary-education-511-with-qualified-teacher-status-2-year-topup/part-time
I know some one who was sponsored by their employer whilst doing this. I think it is probably a route that suits an older person maybe with family commitments which means they can't study full time rather than a teenager. Getting a degree and a teaching qualification whilst working requires a level of commitment and organisational skills that many 18 years won't have yet. All teachers need a degree but there are alternative routes to get that degree.

I'm a teacher (international private schools these days, though).

Here's ds's route - I have no idea how I didn't put the wee bugger off, but he's loving it. He's 18.

IB at school. He did ok, not amazing because he did bugger all during lockdown, but he came out with a respectable score.

Did a one month TEFL course via TeachNomad & is currently teaching in Cambodia. He's having an utterly fabulous time. He is also growing up - he got in trouble over a data entry cock up last week & was absolutely BLASTED. It's the first time he has been roasted in a setting where he's supposed to be a professional adult, not a babied 6th former.

It was basically 'Fix this or fuck off!' & my goodness did he grow up that weekend. He worked all weekend, fixed it, & is utterly chastened & appreciative of his immediate boss - she went in to bat for him, saying he was amazing with the kids, full of energy & good ideas. Yes, but he soooo needed that wake up call.

With your dd, I can only say there's everything to be said for classroom experience - wherever - pre degree. I can really recommend the overseas gap year route. It's made a huge difference to ds.

Ultimately, it's a degree profession. But well worth gaining classroom experience before committing.

Teachers are disrespected everywhere, believe me, and it is political, but we do have stronger unions and better conditions as a whole.

I work with a teacher who is English, has come from English schools; another who is Scottish, trained here but worked in London for many years before returning home. Both inform me of academies hiring graduates with no PGCE, and private schools hiring alumni with A levels and paying them a pittance to 'teach' classes. I'm appalled by so much of what they tell me.

PSAs here can't be responsible for pupils at all, not just a whole class, they need a supervising teacher. They still work their backsides off, bit they're never responsible on their own.

I think she's picking up on you projecting your own feelings about being an immature 18yo.

It's fair enough though that 18yo now have had their development interrupted by covid. So she should apply for deferred entry and start at 19/20 rather than 18/19. Driving an hour to uni is nothing. It's not 9-5.

Are her friends not planning on moving away?

Does she have a boyfriend she doesn't want to leave?

You also need to explain to her that student loans are a graduate tax in another name. For teaching it's a worthwhile endeavour.

@llynnnn

There are several routes into teaching

Have a look at this website

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk

Picking up on the desire by your daughter to earn, there are lots of opportunities to earn while you learn. DD is in sixth form now and some of her friends have picked jobs based on how transferable that is to wherever they study, whether they be a supermarket, retail chain or barista role.

friends who have older DCs I’ve seen them have summer and Christmas jobs, some work at school holiday camps like Barrcudas and so ideal for a potential teacher.

I've known a lot of TAs who have worked their way up to becoming teachers, but they have all had degrees already. They can train on the job once they have become a TA by attending a teacher training programme at university one day a week or by taking a one year PGCE, but an undergraduate degree is always required.

If she isn't the most confident / mature / feeling ready to move away to University, then does (or will) she have the confidence / maturity / readiness to be a teacher ?
It isn't the easiest of jobs and the NQT year can be very tough.

Clearly, there are nearly 2 years before she would start anyway, so may well mature, but if not, then why not take a year out, work, mature, and go the next year, when she will not only be a year older, she will be a year richer, and she will have gained experience outside of schools, working with colleagues of different ages and potentially working with the public, and can build up other experiences such as running a Brownie Pack / Cub pack / Boys or Girls Brigade Unit / sports Team / etc

Edge Hill is in Ormskirk, Lancashire. Quite a long way from Birmingham.

My apologies, my geography was wrong there!

Our nearest uni offering teaching is a good hours drive away,

The university I did my PGCE at was an hour’s drive away-I did that for a year, it’s perfectly doable! School placements were all over the place though-one was five minutes drive down the road, one was 15, another 30 minutes drive-all in different places. Her priority really needs to be learning to drive.

And growing up a bit. Then getting a degree.,

TA for a bit until she feels confident enough to go off and do a degree somewhere.
Or TA plus Open University. The OU has quite a lot of younger students nowadays.

It is possible we've recently had a teacher qualify who started as a kitchen assistant without even GCSEs, did GCSE (equivalents) with us, became a TA on an apprenticeship programme and kept building modules until she gained QTS status.

It's a long long route though and TBH peers don't think as much of the qualification. DD would be better advised to get a degree and go the traditional route.

Apart from educational level, going away from home to do a degree also gives you some 'life experience'. I'd really question if your dd would be ready to be a teacher if she isn't confident enough to live away from her mum. This is not because she potentially wouldn't be great at working with children but teaching involves SO much more than teaching.
A large part of a primary teacher's job is dealing with social issues, family issues, safeguarding issues, behaviour issues. Some parents can be demanding, aggressive, abusive or simply disinterested. Others of course are lovely and supportive but have enormous life issues. I honestly don't think that a young adult who isn't confident about leaving home him/herself would have the empathy, life skills and assertiveness needed to cope with the things that primary teaching throws at you.
Advise her to take some time out after finishing school to get a job work, learn to drive, become an adult and then decide if teaching still appeals.

@Invizicat
Yes there can be huge demands but in sweet little village schools, not so much.

@TizerorFizz in my experience sweet little village schools still have their fair share of the issues I mentioned going on. They sometimes also have the very assertive and demanding parents who are best friends of the head teacher and who would walk all over an unconfident NQT, telling them how we always do it in this school.

Well they might but not so much as schools serving deprived areas. As a former governor of the latter, but living in the former, there’s a Nadine difference. CofE don’t get many aggressive parents from my experience.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl

Well not technically true. My sister in law started as a TA with barely a GCSE to her name. She then got a job as a HLTA and then moved on to class teacher, albeit unqualified. She teaches year 3 and has full class responsibility. I find that astonishing given the lack of her own education but hey Ho she’s cheap to employ. Win, win for the schools budget.

@DarkKarmaIlama Is that in a private or a free school, I didn't think that was allowed in a state school?

@Galarunner

It is a state school in England. It is part of a multi academy trust. It’s nothing new. There’s tons of unqualified teachers in the midlands although it’s more common in secondary as opposed to primary. She has full class responsibility and an apprentice TA working with her (year 3). School appears to be all singing and dancing on the surface but if you look beneath it’s all very murky indeed.

@Galarunner

Not uncommon at all to see ads like this one round these ends:

careers.coventry.gov.uk/jobs/job/Unqualified-Teacher-John-Gulson-Primary-School/5940

This is a state primary. Some to request for degrees but many don’t. My SIL certainly doesn’t have a degree.

That's dreadful, I wonder how many parents realise that their children are being taught by unqualified staff?