Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from from Oxbridge?

[mids2019]

Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from Oxbridge?

My daughter was watching some American teen thing yesterday on Netflix and there was girl who's entire future lay on getting into Yale and Ivy League entrance was the be all and end all for this particular group of teenagers.

I know the US has a different HE system and culture but do we still have similar views in the UK in 2022? If there are prestigious universities in the UK how would you define this prestige? If we only allow Oxbridge the prestige label does this mean anyone who wishes to go a prestigious university has one (or two) Oxbridge or busy type application experiences then that ship sails?

Or maybe prestige is an archaic class ridden concept that is fading this millennium?

I was drawn to one of the RG v other university discussions and it may appear that the RG is being used as an artificial label to convey prestige in an HE environment where competition for Oxbridge is more intense than ever.

It's more specifically southern English posters (who are also liable to miss out Manchester), not 'all the English posters'!

That's fair, and I do think just as southerns generally stay in the south and northerners stay in the north Scots stay in Scotland. Although for us that's mainly because of the different school systems, why apply to an English university when you can have a set of unconditional offers by Christmas based on your Highers? Actually, the NE has the highest Oxbridge offer rate by region, suspect it's a side effect of the lack of participation in HE though, only the very best will be applying whereas a southern private school probably gets everyone applying even if they aren't good enough.

Manchester and Glasgow are both are excellent large city based Universities with a long history of excellent science (and political agitation). I'd be delighted if any of mine DC wanted to go to Manchester!

My DD is at LSE - there is something I've noticed that isn't reflected in this discussion but nevertheless adds to the whole student experience which would also be true for any student at any of these London unis: they are right in the heart of it . The other day she saw a barrister stride out of court to talk to a Julian Assange supporter who was protesting - she sat on a wall with a pret sandwich taking it all in ! Their lecturers and professors are active in their respective fields. Visiting speakers are sought after on a worldwide stage. Politicians drop in with no notice. There is, in short, a buzz and a vibrancy that comes from a truly diverse campus. And it is ridiculous to suggest that anyone who knows anything about British unis doesn't know the names Imperial, UCL, Kings and of course the school. I'm biased of course but also truly grateful every time to meet Dd for her to be part of this amazing vibrant institution.

LSE perhaps, but not as many would have heard of the others mentioned. The culture can be ultra woke but what if that is not your thing? UCL researchers, for example, are disproportionately represented in media (especially on the BBC) but this is not necessarily a reflection of the teaching provided to undergrads. What about students who want quality tuition at a high price (UCL accommodation cost twice as much as Bristol in the case I know about ) and don't really care about the sense of connectedness? Also, home students who already live in London have several months of access to all that on their doorstep so probably are not so enthusiastic about it.

It's difficult to counter specific examples for which I have no knowledge or data sources. Just to broaden the conversation back out, I honestly believe that there is no one shining star that shines above all the others. We loved Bath's 4 year course when a year placement and 93% employability after a year. I have more DC coming through and would actively to look at the content of each course and any suits them. If any of these unis are able to echo that we need more access to a wider range to unis and less cabinet ministers from the same schools then I think we are all heading in the right direction.

LSE perhaps, but not as many would have heard of the others mentioned. The culture can be ultra woke but what if that is not your thing?

I don't think this has been true since the 70s. Most students are heads down and work hard. Gender Studies have been throwing up a few "interesting" characters recently but that is a tiny department. The big departments are finance, accountancy, economics, and law though leavened by some first rate IR, social policy, geography, anthropology etc. The diversity of the student body will effectively preclude the establishment of any orthodoxy in views. In recent years LSE staff have been some of the few who have failed to vote for strike action. You are likely to get a much bigger turn out for a career talk by Goldman Sachs than for any sort of demo. Good or bad? I dunno, but certainly not woke.

(Actually the last LSE public lectures I went to before lockdown was from one of the architects of the Brexit leave campaign. People listened and asked interesting questions. What should be expected in an academic institution.)

@Needmoresleep I was actually referring to UCL. A bit outing so I will keep it vague (And it may have been badly planned on this occasion) but in a standard arts degree small group (not gender studies-related), there was one cis gender student (if you like) and three bearded guys with hairy legs wearing frilly dresses (with girls' names) who kept steering the discussion towards TG issues because that was all they professed to be interested in. It went on for two terms and the cis student felt that they learned nothing of any use because of it.

No surprise there @Croque .

This is a social issue that has spun out of control, we haven’t hit the bottom yet.

🙄 Sadly, I know. But it was less of an issue at Exeter, Bristol, Bath where their friends were studying. It seems to be a London University problem in particular (SOAS students shared accommodation with UCL students and were even worse) .

It would definitely be a pull for some students and families who are also passionate about all of that but as I said, not for everyone!

Was just coming on to say exactly this. Look for example, at the QS/THES ranking for Queen's University Belfast (in RG) - both are well below my own university, which none of you will ever have heard of (not in UK, but in a top 50 dept). This stuff really is all bullshit - look at staff-student ratios, course content and opportunities and figure out if the academic staff in the dept/school actually teach the students...

Ahh that makes more sense, though sadly this experience will not be unique to UCL....Goldsmiths and SOAS, by reputation, are worse. I think LSE managed to provide both an "expert witness" supporting Maya's employer during her employment tribunal and a trustee for Mermaids, both likely to feel at home in the class you describe.

In my day LSE students were revolting, whilst Chicago school academics were putting together the framework for Thatcher's economic policy. Now students joke that it is the only u7niversity where students are more right wing than staff.

But this is off topic. The urban environment suits some students. The pattern of teaching, which at LSE is effectively two 12 week terms and 1 six week exam term is less intense than the Oxbridge 8 week terms. The teaching approach is different, but Oxbridge can falter if your tutor is a duffer.

It depends on what you perceive as prestigious. As I said upthread, LSE and Imperial have given my DC the launch pad for the careers they want, and going to Oxbridge would not have given them any obvious additional advantage or recognition.

Those are parents.

Plenty of people from Southern England got to Welsh and Northern universities. Less got to Scottish universities due to the distance and difference in the education system.

I think many would love to study in London and simply can’t afford the accom

yes hugely prestigious places LSE, UCL etc

Imperial has really generous bursaries for kids from low income families that cover the bulk of accommodation costs.

@EBearhug I would love to hear what unis's your friend likes to recruit geography graduates from as my dd is thinking of studying geography and is starting to consider different places, so any info like that would be very helpful x

He doesn't look at UK courses so much now, as he's emigrated, but mostly he preferred courses with more focus on physical geography. But it depends what she wants to do which she might not yet know. He does a lot of work with soil science, erosion and protection against that.

But I'd say look at the course details, typical modules and specialisms of current staff. My degree is history, and that can vary a lot between institutions because different staff have different interests. I was at a reunion over the weekend, and it reminded me what different things we all ended up studying while all ending up with history degrees.

for sure

for those who are somewhere in the middle though London is £££

the Ancient unis who own lots of property can be surprisingly reasonable - if you can get in student accom of course

Thank you for all the knowledgeable feedback.

I wonder about university reputation amongst the young especially in fairly middling/slightly above average comps similar to the one attended by my daughter. Here I think popular culture and peer perception has an influence. I don't know if an average child would necessarily get to know about the relative prestige of university unless told so by parents (teachers can be quite coy). Does anyone know if pupils who had ambitions to attend a prestigious university from quite early on in their secondary school career?

I only know if some parents (in London) who have been set on the US route because this is where they studied and just what they know. It's a very different application process.
Apart from that, mine were in the so-called top performing independents and I'm not aware of any at all really who had early ambitions to attend a particular uni. Never heard it come up in conversation ever. Most of them see what their A- level predictions are and then go from there. Increasingly, a lot more are heading to the US but, as I said, that's a totally different process. Maybe about 30 get into Oxbridge every year, but at least that many again will apply and not get in. It can seem very arbitrary. Some courses are more competitive there than others. Apart from that, there's Imperial, LSE, UCL or Durham (depending on if you want an out of London experience or not. There's Sat Andrews and Edinburgh, but not everyone wants to be that far north and also it means a 4 year Scottish degree, rather than 3. Bath is increasingly popular. Warwick, Manchester or Bristol? Or some go to RADA or CSM etc. Those are the main ones probably
.

It is quite rare for chidlren to say when they are young I intend to go to LSE or to Oxford as they won't know if they are going to be clever enough, their GCSE results high enough etc.

The case that comes to mind is a slightly delusional man who decided aged 8 he wanted to go to Harvard. He sued Oxford for £1m when it did not give him a first. He lost. He still got a job at a leading law firm so hardly suffered from the 2/1 grade.
it is quite an interesting court judgment www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/siddiqui-full-judgment-1.pdf

"His recollection was that at the age of eight, on a visit to the Harvard Law School building, he vowed in front of his parents that he would one day return there to study as a student.

At Burnham Grammar School he took twelve GCSEs and obtained four A* grades and eight A grades. He was overall second in the School at this level. He then went to the Royal Grammar School, High Wycombe for his A-levels. He took A-levels in History, English Literature, Economics and Maths. His school predicted A grades in the first three subjects and a B in Maths. In his application to Oxford his school provided him with an excellent reference. He was offered a place at Brasenose College on the basis that he obtained three A grades in the A-levels to be taken in the summer of 1997. In fact he obtained A grades in the History and English Literature papers, with B grades in the other two. Notwithstanding this, he was offered a place at Brasenose which he accepted. He began there in the Michaelmas Term in 1997. Despite what many would regard as a success, the Claimant was very disappointed with his A-level results."

He could not go to Harvard as he did not get a first.
Later in a separate case when he was old he sued his parents fora life long maintenance grant. He lost that case too www.legalcheek.com/2021/03/ex-magic-circle-lawyer-who-brought-1-million-claim-against-oxford-university-over-inadequate-teaching-now-sues-wealthy-parents-for-life-long-maintenance-gran/

@acatwhisperer

The attitude of students towards university seems perfectly sensible in that you wait until you have an inkling about predicted grades before even thinking about university. However it leaves a thought, should university entrance act as a spur for students to motivate themselves to achieve their best or should attainment academically be just for pride and self fulfillment?

Given the success rate of Oxbridge applicants at your school do you have a number of reapplicants taking a year out before reapplying if unsuccessful? I suspect that there may be a fine margin between the best and worst at sixth form level. Do you think the rise in US applications is partly due to ever increasing competition for highly regarded courses in the UK?

mids2019 - one if my DC was very average at one of these schools and in fact in one of the lowest maths sets. Didn't feel outstanding at anything ever. Then she surprised herself (and me) by getting all 9s at GCSE. That summer, we happened to visit Cambridge to meet friends. That was it- she announced it was her dream to go there. Anyway, it was like she found her focus then and there. Applied to uni first time round with four A star predictions. Got offers from UCL, Durham, LSE and Bristol. Pooled but rejected from Cambridge. Decided to turn down those offers (yikes!!!) and took a gap year. Got all A stars as predicted. Won two international essay competitions.m and some other prizes in her subject. Re- applied to pretty much the same unis and, by the Jan, got her unconditional offer for Cambridge. Worked in South America and travelled in Asia for most of the gap year. Grew up a lot in that time. Got to Cambridge and took it in her stride and having the time if her life. So it all worked out - but not an easy ride to get there!

Oxford and Cambridge

Durham, Imperial, LSE, UCL, KCL

Edinburgh, Other London universities

St Andrews, Bristol, Exeter, etc.

Durham isn't actually that highly ranked. It's normally much lower than Edinburgh for example.