Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from from Oxbridge?

[mids2019]

Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from Oxbridge?

My daughter was watching some American teen thing yesterday on Netflix and there was girl who's entire future lay on getting into Yale and Ivy League entrance was the be all and end all for this particular group of teenagers.

I know the US has a different HE system and culture but do we still have similar views in the UK in 2022? If there are prestigious universities in the UK how would you define this prestige? If we only allow Oxbridge the prestige label does this mean anyone who wishes to go a prestigious university has one (or two) Oxbridge or busy type application experiences then that ship sails?

Or maybe prestige is an archaic class ridden concept that is fading this millennium?

I was drawn to one of the RG v other university discussions and it may appear that the RG is being used as an artificial label to convey prestige in an HE environment where competition for Oxbridge is more intense than ever.

To quote Mary Curnock Cook, former UCAS head, the Russell Group a hollow brand….self-selecting and self-promoting containing perhaps four or five genuinely outstanding universities Some of the rest being modest performers.

Her full piece on it it’s time to talk about the Russell Group can be found on the HEPI website.

I’ve only quoted her more restrained comments.

the RG had a massive tantrum, toys hurled from its privileged pram. It is a very effective marketing group though.

Here's a link to the Computer Science rankings - you can filter by region or country

www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2022/computer-science-information-systems

It is a very effective marketing group though.

That's exactly all that Russel Group is! It says nothing about the quality of teaching or employment prospects

My York post was supposed to be in reply to the point about the likes of Exeter being elevetated in the minds of people in the South.

Id see Sheffield as below Bristol in general terms.

Glasgow was founded in 1451 and Aberdeen in 1495

I’m an immigrant. I had never heard of Imperial or UCL until moving to the UK. I had heard of the LSE snd St Andrew’s though. The first because of my educational background, social sciences, not STEM, and the later because it made the news when Prince William went there. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I never heard of QS until I came onto Mumsnet. (Three of aunts and uncles are university professors, and two of my university friends now are. I’ve picked up a lot of second hand opinions and info over the years and no one ever mentioned QS. I feel like QS is quite a narrow guide that favours big universities doing STEM research. Obviously this important and prestigious, but not the only show in town. There is a whole world outside of STEM.)

on London v out of London, my sons went to a minority white London private school and lots of the boys have to live at home with parents until they marry due to their religion and culture, never mind to save on rent.

Exactly the same at our (by the sounds of it) similar school. There was a very clear link as you outline.

I think I am being really thick because I can't locate Sheffield on the CS list!

And St Andrews in 1413 so all the same century, hence my joke about Edinburgh (est 1583). Although it wasn't until 1860 that King's College (catholic) and Marischal College (protestant) were united to become the modern University of Aberdeen.

It is interesting that Glasgow is ignored so much on MN. It is 73 in the world rankings (the 11th UK university in the QS rankings) that's higher than the MN favourites Durham, St Andrews, York, and Bath.

And actually it's worth looking at that list and thinking about where the famous and historic universities from other countries appear in comparison to the UK universities. Glasgow is next to the Sorbonne, about 10 below Heidelberg, well above e.g. Bologna, Uppsala, and Salamanca. To be anywhere in the Top 200 can mean a university that is prestigious in its own country and with a reputation beyond its own borders. Prestigious generally meaning historic and research heavy and so difficult to get into. Nothing to do with undergraduate teaching (A million years ago when I was a student the fact that you had to do more independent work was what made a traditional university degree prestigious in comparison to the newer universities).

I think I am being really thick because I can't locate Sheffield on the CS list!

Sheffield is a little down the list, ranked 201-250.

You can search by region or country. The top 5 UK unis for CS are Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial, UCL and Edinburgh

I thought it was higher! I have now fallen down a league table rabbit hole and I am wondering which one to take notice of for Sheffield,,, Times Higher does not place it in to top 50ish (i cant believe Lincoln is number 28...) Complete University Guide places it at number 13 and Guardian ranks it at number 11.

I understand they will be using different algorithms, but how can you know which guide to trust? Is it at all measurable or are we just going to tried and trusted institutions?

It’s interesting looking at the World Rankings because some just aren’t famous in the way others are. The definition is inspiring respect and admiration; having high status..

If you’ve never heard of them or anybody that went to them or any if their research is it fair to call them prestigious?

Overanalysing these tables probably isn't worth getting too hung up on beyond an idea of maybe which quintile a uni/course tends to sit in. In the case of comp sci, whether they go to Bristol, Sheffield or York, if they thrive on the course they should end up employable.

The thing is why on earth does it matter.

in this country unless it’s Oxford or Cambridge everywhere else falls into the “good university” “ok university” or “never heard of it university” categories.

quite frankly, at undergraduate level all you should be concerned about is whether your dc loves it, whether it feels right to them as a place they want to live for 3-4 years, whether the course is really what they are looking for, whether it provides the lifestyle they want.

Going to university is about becoming an adult, finding your independence, learning to cope with difficult situations, having fun with new friends and yes getting a degree but at the end of the day a degree from any one of the established universities is a degree. Who actually knows where their colleagues all went (unless they’re oxbridge). After your very first job it’s simply not really relevant. Arguing over whether Exeter is “better” than Leeds is quite frankly bonkers and completely impossible to ever determine. People will have a general view on rankings but that’s all and everyone’s view will have been shaped by their own generation and by people they know who studied at various places

This obsession is about parents more than the kids.

Rankings did my head in. However my ds turned things on their head by preferring a course at Surrey rather than Bath. Mumsnet wisdom would collectively clutch its pearls and I wobbled.
However, he will go to both offer days and if still feels the same, so be it... He is a sensible boy and is doing his homework on courses offered, etc...

Absolutely. It has to be their choice about where they will be happiest.

DSs first choice wants AAA and is ranked ten places below his second choice which wants ABB. On rankings the ABB university is “better” in every single ranking list. However he loves the AAA one.

Whereas Bath offer AAB (with epq) and Surrey BBB...

He feels Surrey course structure will suit him better ( politics).
However, going to the offer days and has Essex lined up for visit just in case as likes Q steps angle there.

No longer the case. A boy in DDs school was just given a contextual offer, lower grades.

As long as he does well on the course and gets a job in the end who cares?

Incidentally I know a few Surrey graduates and they have done very well in life. Oddly I don't know any Bath ones...

I think the cause of the biggest variations in rankings comes from the weight they give to research (strong research Universities are not always strong teaching Universities) and to student satisfaction (the Guardian is big on this, which can lead to some very strange results). The LSE in particular jumps all over the place. It notoriously gets very low student satisfaction results (DS told me that there was a badge of honour associated with the fact they often came bottom, which may skew responses to the questionnaire.) It also, obviously does not offer STEM, or do STEM research. Per subject tables are probably more useful when it comes to outliers (Dundee - computer science, Northumbria - product design, Surrey - automotive engineering, Bournemouth - costume design, LSE - social policy, Cardiff - Journalism etc) and even then is can come down to the type of course. You really don't want to read economics at LSE if you don't enjoy maths.

DS is now studying for an econ PhD is the States, and there seems to be an informal consensus on which Economics Departments are strongest. They change, as staff come and go, if the University invests in the department or perhaps if they land a stream of research money. He says that LSE is currently on the up, though did not say why, though I understand that there is a slight post-lockdown reversal of the traditional brain drain from Europe to the US. His programme (six years!) normally takes a couple from British universities each year, seemingly evenly split between LSE and Oxford. Prestigious depends on individual judgement, but our observation is that internationally LSE opens as many doors as anywhere else in the UK.

Toddlingturtle's posts are interesting. I am sure plenty of London kids want to leave London and plenty of schools will recommend it. DC were at a high achieving academic private school in Central London. Generally the focus was the course, so normally the aim was Oxbridge with London as the fallback. From the school website the breakdown for 2022 was:
Oxford (42)
Cambridge (35)
UCL (17)
Imperial (15)
LSE (11)
Other UK (56)
EU (5)
US (35)

Of the "other" a fair number will be medicine, or more specialist Universities like the Courtauld. Edinburgh was always popular, especially for those who held EU passports. (I am not sure how they handle gap years/reapplications.) There were also some, including DD, who at that stage wanted something different. The US breakdown is also interesting. In DDs year eight went to Harvard, which was an impressive high water mark. In 2022 they seem to have got 7 into Stanford.

I suspect ethnicity has quite a lot of influence. As others have suggested London private schools can be very ethnically diverse. This both means more of a tradition of living at home, but also more consideration of international, rather than national, name recognition. Ditto within the state sector, where cost is also a factor. I understand that other than the white middle class, pupils at our nearest and well regarded, state school were often unwilling to consider anything but London options.

Given the sheer expense of going to university these days, the kids are also giving consideration to the rankings of various universities. They want to feel that their hard work is going to pay off, so it isn't just an obsession from parents. Saying that though the degree specialism is just as important as the university but let's not start a conversation about that!

I was interested in the rankings as I see it was more of North bias, rather than the fact Exeter eas perceived as a better university than Leeds. I do think there's a North/South divide.

The title of the thread was 'which are the most prestigious universities after Oxbridge?'. Not all universities are and can be prestigious, but that isn't a criticism at all of the other universities.

I do think there's a North/South divide.

Agree with this. I work for a blue chip pharmaceutical company in the north. We don't bother with trying to recruit from the southern universities, we find their graduates generally don't want to move to the north (unless they come from the north originally). We work with and actively recruit from Scottish and northern universities. We actually don't care about university when we recruit, it's so dependent on class if someone goes to a RG or an ex-poly university.

JaninaDuszejko, and it works the other way round. Judging from comments on MN and from DDs friends, many from the north have little interest in applying for jobs in London. A pity.

(One surprise for us has been how many of DDs friends have only visited London on school trips. If they come to stay, and we have hosted several who have come here for placements, electives, conferences etc, they seem to find that London is more fun than they expected.)