Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from from Oxbridge?

[mids2019]

Are there any other 'prestigous' universities in the UK apart from Oxbridge?

My daughter was watching some American teen thing yesterday on Netflix and there was girl who's entire future lay on getting into Yale and Ivy League entrance was the be all and end all for this particular group of teenagers.

I know the US has a different HE system and culture but do we still have similar views in the UK in 2022? If there are prestigious universities in the UK how would you define this prestige? If we only allow Oxbridge the prestige label does this mean anyone who wishes to go a prestigious university has one (or two) Oxbridge or busy type application experiences then that ship sails?

Or maybe prestige is an archaic class ridden concept that is fading this millennium?

I was drawn to one of the RG v other university discussions and it may appear that the RG is being used as an artificial label to convey prestige in an HE environment where competition for Oxbridge is more intense than ever.

No problem at all.

Size? St Andrew’s is tiny.

research budgets?

number of business and finance degrees? They might be more widely known if offer lots of those?

One of my lecturers was a Russian prize winner. Employed for the prestige and presumably research. No one could understand his lectures though so to an undergrad he was useles.

The London universities Imperial, LSE, UCL are academically challenging and hard to get into. I’d class them as prestigious. Places like St. Andrews, Durham etc are classed as prestigious by mumsnetters because it’s where most of the posh kids go. Personally I don’t rate them much.

Very different student experience at Oxbridge, St Andrews or Durham though to LSE UCL or Imperial. They’re chalk and cheese.

They are very different experiences but the London universities are still more prestigious. It’s immaterial how posh the students are when measuring this.

Disagree that the London universities are more prestigious than say St Andrews. It’s course dependent but overall somewhere like St Andrews will have been heard of more than UCL. Unless you’re in academia or your child has just been through the ucas process you wouldn’t necessarily know that some courses at UCL are hard to get onto. You’re far more likely to have an awareness of say St Andrews as one of the old, high ranking British universities.

They’re all extremely hard to get into due in part to high grade requirements but also more significantly due to extremely high overseas student numbers.

I suppose it depends on how you measure prestige then. I think most people know internationally how good the London universities are because it’s full of international students. I always think of places like St. Andrews, Durham etc a continuation of the private school experience. I honestly thought most people would rank LSE, Imperial etc above St. Andrews, Bath etc.

Most people’s awareness will either come from their own time at university, the Time guide (which for example puts St Andrews in top two) or a vague awareness of university names through having the end of university challenge on whilst waiting for the 9pm good tv programme.

I honestly thought most people would rank LSE, Imperial etc above St. Andrews, Bath etc.

On every global ranking I've seen, Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial & LSE are the highest ranked UK universities, and they actually rank in the top 10 globally, so are very highly ranked,

I think you'll find most recruiters at successful companies have a much more critical awareness.

That’s what I was thinking purplemagnolias.
I’m also seeing Loughborough, Bath, Lancaster rated more highly by mumsnetters than places like Leeds. I wonder if prestige is being measured by where the private school kids want to go?

Isn't St Andrews popular because one of the Royals went there?? Doesn't mean it's on a par with the London universities.

At UCL and Imperial there are at least 50% or even more international students - they know these universities are worth paying for !!

Lancaster is certainly not where the posh kids go. Leeds is independent school party central (along with Newcastle). Exeter also very independent school heavy (and extremely white). Lancaster is very state school dominated.

St Andrews is mainly overseas students. It’s heavily dominated by Americans.

Leeds is highly reputable red brick university.

American top 50 schools are hard to get around. I have spent the past 15 years working in the US and can tell you I would grab a Lehigh grad first ahead of any non-Oxbridge grad from the UK. The reason for this is simply the US colleges prepare students for work and universities in the UK are in the dark ages in terms of how the courses are structured and the content.

I went to a red brick university and it was a waste of time. My eyes were opened when I saw my competition and realized I was woefully undereducated. Fixed the problem by attending school in the US as a post grad. It really is a better standard. Uk to 18 is better than the US system ironically.

The reason for this is that most MNers get their information from the current rankings, all of which would put St Andrews, Lancaster, Loughborough and Bath way above Leeds.

I didn’t sag Lancaster was private school heavy. I said it, along with places like Loughborough and Bath, is often ranked more highly than Leeds etc on mumsnet.

www.palatinate.org.uk/durham-has-lowest-state-school-intake-of-any-uk-university/

I’d say these too

I don't include LSE in the Oxbridge, UCL and Imperial group.

Interesting statistic regarding Durham. I went to an open day with DS and he said it wasn’t for him at all. His sixth form college barely send anyone there. They don’t push it at all. In fact DS said one teacher told him he didn’t rate the teaching in his subject. It gave me vibes of a big boarding school. It’s great for a lot of people though, just not some state kids and those private school kids wanting to get away from that kind of environment.

LSE and Imperial don't offer the range of courses that most other universities do.
So if you wanted to do economics, LSE is hard to beat but not, say, history or MFL. Likewise Imperial is amazing for science, maths and engineering (as I understand it), so it feels hard to place them.

To an extent across the board, there are variations by subject and some generally lower ranking universities are THE place for a particular specialism.

I’m surprised anyone is surprised that St Andrews is highly ranked.

www.insider.co.uk/news/st-andrews-ranked-top-university-25006092

www.theguardian.com/education/2022/sep/24/stoxbridge-st-andrews-overtakes-oxford-cambridge-guardian-university-guide

I think some people are conflating excellence in the humanities/ liberal arts with private school. All universities are now majority state school children. And it is odd to think that state school kids don’t want and wouldn’t benefit from an undergraduate experience that is small, campus based, focussed on teaching as much as research, and aiming to challenge students to think critically about history, society, the meaning of life, world affairs, etc. This isn’t what everyone is after, but there is no reason to believe it is only suitable for “private school children.”

I perceive Durham to occupy a similar space.

All that said, I think the London universities are excellent and also well regarded. We are so lucky to have so many world class institutions. We should fund them properly.