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Original poster

DS, A'level choices and keeping 4?

43 replies

SausageEggBeans · 15/10/2022 12:04

DS has just gone into lower 6th and is getting a bit stressed about his choices.

A few weeks ago he had a bit of a mild panic and went in to speak to his tutors about his A'level choices, which are; Maths, Chemistry, Philosophy and Music. He had a mild panic about not taking Physics, but then when he went to speak to his teachers, including the 6th Form career advisory/ Uni support, they told him it's fine and not to worry. Both they and my DH's research said that the courses he may be interested in for Uni do not specify that a 3rd A'level needs to be Physics.

Now he debating to keep 4 A'levels or take 3 and an EPQ. My DS's tutor, who seems spot on things, has told me that my DS is not someone she is concerned about WRT doing 4 A'levels. However, he is getting jittery as everyone around him is dropping 1 and doing 3.

Now he is saying he can't decide which A'level to drop (which was always between Music and Philosophy), as in his words he loves and is enjoying all 4 subjects and will be gutted at dropping one of them.

My concern here is that the school did say early on in the term that doing 4 benefits no one as Uni's only want 3, and 3 plus an EPQ is better.

However, DS doesn't want to drop one. I have told him that he cannot drop the 4th later and not do an EPQ, so if he is going to keep 4, there is no going back really.

DS is very self motivated, very hardworking, disciplined and academic, so it is not me putting this pressure on him.

Interested in thoughts on the above.

I have talked about him pre A'level and his choices, under another name probably.

OP posts:
cosmiccosmos · 15/10/2022 12:05

My understanding is that unis only look at 3 so no point in doing four. I would drop philosophy and do an EPQ.

Era · 15/10/2022 12:07

3 plus an EPQ is not better than 3. An EPQ may give you a grade reduction in some offers from some universities. That’s all.

4 ALevels is pointless unless one is further maths. Always better to get 3 A stars than two A stars and two As

Piggywaspushed · 15/10/2022 12:08

Has he any notional plans post sixth form?

cosmiccosmos · 15/10/2022 12:09

Also maths 'A' level is very hard even for those gifted at maths. He may find doing 4 is ok at the start but becomes overwhelming. What is their approach to EPQ? Finish in lower 6th?

noblegiraffe · 15/10/2022 12:13

What uni course is he interested in if he is concerned about needing physics?

Don’t underestimate the impact of 4 A-levels on his workload levels and mental health. Schools work on the assumption that students will have free periods in which to do independent study. With 4 A-levels all this work will be pushed into evenings and weekends. This will affect his ability to join in with usual sixth form socialising and also his ability to get a part time job.

The extra workload will probably affect his overall grades which could affect ability to meet entry requirements which are based on 3 A-levels.

There’s a reason that a fourth is usually only allowed if it is further maths, and that’s because those students usually need to spend less time on their maths A-level than others. He has chosen 4 with equally high workloads.

SarahMused · 15/10/2022 12:37

It’s very difficult for strangers to give anything but generic advice here. Only your son and his teachers really know whether it is a good idea to do four A levels or not. I’ve taught plenty of students who have coped with four without any problem and it’s never a waste of time to study subjects you are interested in to a higher level. Two of my own children did four A levels successfully whilst keeping up their outside interests although neither had part time jobs. One did maths, chemistry, physics and art and the other maths, chemistry, biology and psychology. The first was to keep options as open as possible and the second benefitted from the extra UCAS points in gaining an interview and place at her first choice medical school.
I would say if he has a good reason to stick with four, is prepared to put the work in and can cope academically why not go for it?

GerronBuzanDoThaWomwok · 15/10/2022 14:19

Drop the fourth, do the EPQ if he has something he genuinely finds intriguing: no one (I include Oxford) expects 4 A levels, the EPQ may not be included in an offer as tariff points for some universities, but can result in a lower offer.It is, however, a great confidence booster to be able to add the result to the UCAS application form and is a superb starting point in a personal statement and interview 🙃

Fireflygal · 15/10/2022 14:24

I have told him that he cannot drop the 4th later and not do an EPQ, so if he is going to keep 4, there is no going back really

Some drop the 4th at the end of lower 6th. Why do you believe there is no going back?

ErrolTheDragon · 15/10/2022 15:04

However, DS doesn't want to drop one. I have told him that he cannot drop the 4th later and not do an EPQ, so if he is going to keep 4, there is no going back really.

That depends on whether the school allows any flexibility with the timing of EPQs. My DD started 4 A levels and an EPQ, ended up dropping one of the (pre reform) A levels after AS, and doing the bulk of the EPQ in the summer hols, finishing off in the first term of year 13. That worked really well for her.

Darbs76 · 16/10/2022 08:26

There isn’t much point doing 4 as every Uni we went to said they’d rather 3 and all offers are based on 3. I wouldn’t even bother with the EPQ. My son did 3, 4 great offers and got 3 A*’s. I think it would have been a huge challenge to add another on and would have meant his grades took a hit. Also meant he could keep doing his hobbies throughout and had a life outside of studying

Mumwithbaggage · 16/10/2022 12:00

Good advice here - dd3 did 4 and regretted it (was also doing Core Maths till she realised it was not going to help her in any way). She would have been staight A*s with three I'm sure.

red4321 · 16/10/2022 12:11

Drop the fourth, do the EPQ if he has something he genuinely finds intriguing: no one (I include Oxford) expects 4 A levels, the EPQ may not be included in an offer as tariff points for some universities, but can result in a lower offer.It is, however, a great confidence booster to be able to add the result to the UCAS application form and is a superb starting point in a personal statement and interview

I'd agree with this. I'm convinced my son only received an offer from Durham as his EPQ demonstrated interest in his subject. Whereas most of his friends (including Oxbridge candidates) didn't.

It is a lot of work though. I'd try to get as much as you can completed by the summer of your lower sixth.

Some of his friends sat four A levels although our (selective indie) discourages taking four unless you're doing maths and further maths. You have to balance the extra workload of four v having the flexibility to slip grades in one of the A levels and still meet your Uni offer.

mondaytosunday · 16/10/2022 12:22

A levels are not just for getting in to university, they are a thing in themselves.
My daughter is taking a couple A levels that have nothing to do with her chosen career (her course only requires one A level of a particular subject) but because she's interested in them. She's also doing an EPQ which only has a secondary relation to her ambitions, but something she was really keen to learn more about.
So I think if he can handle the four and wants to continue, why not? It doesn't matter that not all will be considered at uni. It's what he wants to get out of the subject that matters.

Dotcheck · 16/10/2022 12:26

OP
What does your son want to do? Why does he think he needs physics?

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 16/10/2022 13:00

I think you need to drop the "you can't drop the 4th and not do an EPQ"- there's no reason to push this. I'd allow him to carry on with 4, but be supportive of the idea of him dropping the 4th at the end of Y12, or whenever, really, if he felt like the workload was becoming too much.

DinkyDaisy · 16/10/2022 17:04

I think a good mark in an epq can be great for widening choice, especially if you have a child who has perhaps made a wrong choice on an A level so may drop a grade...(ds in mind here!)
Depends on your situation...

user29 · 16/10/2022 17:16

4 A levels are perfectly doable for smart kids and of course competitive universitiesi look more favourable on a kid with 4 A^s than 3As even though they dont admit it. If you don't believe my look at Discoveruni information pages about the actua;l number of UCAS points those admitted have! DS got 4 As and one of hs friends got 6 A*s (both state school) and this has opened many doors for him

user29 · 16/10/2022 17:18

user29 · 16/10/2022 17:16

4 A levels are perfectly doable for smart kids and of course competitive universitiesi look more favourable on a kid with 4 A^s than 3As even though they dont admit it. If you don't believe my look at Discoveruni information pages about the actua;l number of UCAS points those admitted have! DS got 4 As and one of hs friends got 6 A*s (both state school) and this has opened many doors for him

school boy error of A * s being printed as bolding
DS got 4 x A star
friend got 6 x A star

twelly · 16/10/2022 17:23

For the short term/medium term I would carry on with four - often the one that seems the obvious one to drop changes, its still early days and some subjects are deliberately made easier by teachers at the start. I think four in the upper sixth is too much but at this point who knows which subject he will do best in.

erinaceus · 16/10/2022 21:23

I have told him that he cannot drop the 4th later and not do an EPQ

Why? (I'm not sure it's you that makes the call anyway.)

fUNNYfACE36 · 16/10/2022 23:04

erinaceus · 16/10/2022 21:23

I have told him that he cannot drop the 4th later and not do an EPQ

Why? (I'm not sure it's you that makes the call anyway.)

My dcs school makes them do epq if they are only doing 3 a levels

middleager · 16/10/2022 23:19

Why the EPQ? Is it because he would want to, or for the educational benefits it might bring for uni?

I have two children in lower sixth.
One does 3 A Levels. He had to pick a 4th option, enrichment. He thought he 'should' do an EPQ, but I encouraged him to do sport, for fun and downtime.

My other son does 3 A Levels, plus further Maths, so I understand the workloads your son will be getting.

middleager · 16/10/2022 23:23

I might add, his heart was not in the EPQ. I could tell he really wanted to do sport, so encouraged him to do that, rather than take on more pressure

Original poster
SausageEggBeans · 17/10/2022 08:23

I have told him that he cannot drop the 4th later and not do an EPQ

Yes, of course it’s not my call, it’s his. However, his school makes them do an EPQ if they do 3 A’levels and so I don’t think it’s in his favour to end up with 3 A’levels and no EPQ if others have it.

As said, he loves all his A’levels and doesn’t want to drop one. He’s torn. Maybe he just needs to do them for a bit longer, and the choice will present itself. He’s not that keen on doing an EPQ.

OP posts:
goodbyestranger · 17/10/2022 09:20

user29 I have a sample of eight DC of my own. DS1 got six A* but I don't see any discernible difference between him and his siblings who only got three. Three A levels is fine, even for top unis (certainly for Oxford) and even without an EPQ. I'm wondering how you can tell which doors swung open for your DS and his friend which would have stayed shut if they'd done fewer A levels? Not our experience in this family at all.