DS, A'level choices and keeping 4?

[SausageEggBeans]

DS has just gone into lower 6th and is getting a bit stressed about his choices.

A few weeks ago he had a bit of a mild panic and went in to speak to his tutors about his A'level choices, which are; Maths, Chemistry, Philosophy and Music. He had a mild panic about not taking Physics, but then when he went to speak to his teachers, including the 6th Form career advisory/ Uni support, they told him it's fine and not to worry. Both they and my DH's research said that the courses he may be interested in for Uni do not specify that a 3rd A'level needs to be Physics.

Now he debating to keep 4 A'levels or take 3 and an EPQ. My DS's tutor, who seems spot on things, has told me that my DS is not someone she is concerned about WRT doing 4 A'levels. However, he is getting jittery as everyone around him is dropping 1 and doing 3.

Now he is saying he can't decide which A'level to drop (which was always between Music and Philosophy), as in his words he loves and is enjoying all 4 subjects and will be gutted at dropping one of them.

My concern here is that the school did say early on in the term that doing 4 benefits no one as Uni's only want 3, and 3 plus an EPQ is better.

However, DS doesn't want to drop one. I have told him that he cannot drop the 4th later and not do an EPQ, so if he is going to keep 4, there is no going back really.

DS is very self motivated, very hardworking, disciplined and academic, so it is not me putting this pressure on him.

Interested in thoughts on the above.

I have talked about him pre A'level and his choices, under another name probably.

SausageEggBeans all my DC went to a superselective grammar but DD4 (my youngest DC) only did three A levels and no EPQ. She was I think the only person in her cohort to start out by saying she didn't really want to do an EPQ and yet was one of the highest performing in her cohort, got an Oxford offer. The tutors couldn't have cared less (first choice college etc).

DS’s school seem to be very hot on linking your EPQ to an A’level to show Unis that you are v keen on the subject.

If he’s going to drop anything I would choose music. (I speak as someone who played music to a high level but chose against it as a career).

Music A level is no benefit as a performer. As an academic subject unless you want to study music at university, it’s not that useful.

Maths, chemistry and philosophy are 2 STEM and a humanities showing he’s an all rounder.

OIC - makes sense makes sense.

Do any of his subjects' syllabus have a parallel AS level that he could take, if he wanted to drop a subject at the end of y12? Some subjects' syllabuses are organised like this. He could discuss with his tutor whether this is possible. Even if psychologically he has this in the back of his mind, it might make him feel less anxious.

Otherwise, plenty of students do manage 4 or even 5 or 6 A levels. If he loves all his subjects and is prepared to put the work in, I don't see why he shouldn't crack on.

What is it that your DS would like to do at university?

An EPQ can be useful if a student is applying to courses that have no equivalent A-level, because they provide a means by which a student can explore and show their interest in that area. It would be of most 'practical' benefit if applying for universities that interview - DD's interview focused very strongly on her EPQ. It can also be also useful for the student in terms of them feeling confident in their course choice and easing their way into the first year - DD's few weeks of lectures in 1 area were a duplication of her reading for her EPQ, for example - or simply in terms of a very different study dynamic - research and essay writing with proper referencing - that is much more typical of university.

However, if your DS's course choice is one of his A-levels or very close to it, then there may be more benefit to retaining breadth through a fourth A-level, whether it is taken to final exams or not.

DS, whose school retained AS levels for much longer than most, took 4 subjects to AS and 3 A-levels, as was the norm for his school.

DD started 4, again the norm for her sixth form, and did an EPQ related to her intended university course. She would have dropped the fourth - a language - in ordinary times after Y12 exams, and her university offer did not include it, but being in the second Covid cohort, with 2 x lockdowns, no Y12 exams and then CAGs, she ended up taking all 4 and the EPQ to the end.

My DC's school discourages 4 A levels, apart from those doing further maths. Otherwise there are a few who do 4 where the 4th is something where some kind of special circumstances mean that it might be a bit "easier" for them eg my DD has a friend who is a native German speaker who did German as her 4th A level. Otherwise the norm is 3 A levels and either an EPQ or core maths to be done in lower 6th. They have students who go on to to a wide range of destinations, but a good number to Oxbridge/RG/other well regarded Universities so "only" having 3 A levels doesn't seem to be an issue for most. And 3 good grades must be better than 4 lower ones.
I think the value of an EPQ varies a lot depending on the student's interests and future aspirations. My DS got a lot out of his and it definitely helped him get work experience in a specific field, which in turn cemented his choice of degree. Plus I think it helped a lot in learning about self directed study and developing a more independent learning style so it can be useful beyond the "will it count towards my University application" perspective.
If your DS drops an A level maybe he could do an EPQ that is related to the one he drops, then he is still demonstrating an interest in that subject, and getting the interest of studying it, but it isn't as arduous as doing another A level?

I am uncertain about the school's contention that an EPQ is necessary to show 'deep interest in a subject'. There are lots of much less onerous ways of doing so - MOOCs, attendance at conferences or workshops in person, reading etc - and an EPQ is definitely not 'required'.

It is a LOT of work, in terms of the research, documentation (most of the marks go on this, and DD's evaluation of sources was almost 4x as long as her actual essay), writing and editing and also a presentation. If we had not had lockdown, I don't think DD would have completed hers, but it was an excellent way of filling lockdown hours!

I would echo the PP that using an EPQ to keep up an interest in the 'dropped' A-level. A concert, instrument or composition can be the 'artefact' that is produced in the EPQ, for example, rather than an essay.

Or he can use the time to do a lot of extra-curricular music, for example, as that will then be a natural 'in' to a very worthwhile interest at university and beyond, even if not related to his studies.

Without knowing what your DS wants to do at uni, it's hard to advise.

When looking at the value of EPQs with my DD last year, very few unis drop a grade for one (and even then, the EPQ needs to be graded an A/A* ). It varies from course to course as well.

I agree there are a number of ways to show interest in the subject you wish to study without doing an EPQ (many of which could be argued to show greater interest as the student has done them independently rather than being forced to do an EPQ through school).

That sounds like an idea they've come up with that bears little relation to reality.

EPQs are good if they're an end in themselves, not a (supposed) means to an end. DD did one because her school wasn't running any tech A levels in her year, and she wanted to keep up her electronics skills, so she did an 'artefact' designing and building a robot. The value of doing this via an EPQ was that she could use the school's facilities. The same sort of thing might apply to a music or art project, for example.

This.
Do one as an AS in year 12. Syllabi are designed to allow this.

I got half way down before I thought to myself “what about an AS, why the fuss over an EPQ?” At the end of the day, an EPQ is just a personalised AS.

Means he can do 4 for a year and decide later on which he wants to drop when he knows which he prefers and means he keeps the 3.5 A-Levels which is the same as the rest of his year. He’s not lost out either way then.

Very few schools offer the option of ASs any more.

Do one as an AS in year 12. Syllabi are designed to allow this
Depends if they are offered by the school though. There's no option to do AS levels at my DS's school or any of the other 6th forms that we looked at.

...and there are some subjects which don't allow for AS at all or where there are differences so significant that you have to do entirely different work to get the AS. I teach 3 A levels - one has no AS , one has an AS with different content and one has an AS that essentially tests year 12 work , if taught at the speed of light.

AS isn’t really a thing anymore other than in a very few specific subjects/exam boards

Yes, I think you would need to discuss whether the AS route is possible with his school / teachers, as it varies by subject and syllabus as well as school.

At our school literally only geography can run as an AS. And that’s just because it’s a different exam board

Sorry, didn’t realise AS didn’t link with A2 any more. Know it has changed and you dont do AS exam before A2 and you just do A2 now but not that it was different content. Apologies if I caused any confusion/mentioned something which maybe isn’t possible for the OP.