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Original poster

Drop 4th A-level to concentrate on STEP urgent help

48 replies

UcasQuandary · 07/10/2022 12:01

My DS, at state 6th form college, is in the process of applying to top unis (Cambridge being one) to study Maths. Obviously this is an early application and the deadline is next week! (I'm slightly starting to panic).
He is currently studying 4 A-levels - Maths, F. Maths, Physics, Chemistry. But he has been advised by his teachers to drop either Chemistry or Physics to concentrate on the STEP exam. They feel 4 A-levels plus STEP practise will spread him too thin.

My question is - would this put him at a disadvantage on his application having just 3 A-levels, one of which is F.Maths? If not, would dropping Chemistry or Physics be better?

His predicted grades are Maths - A star, F. Maths- A star, Physics -A, Chemistry -A.

He prefers Physics to Chemistry as it's obviously more like Maths but does dropping Chemistry make his A-levels too limited? Is Maths, F. Maths, Physics enough to get an offer at Cambridge, UCL, Warwick etc?

He was ready to press send on his application today but now they've thrown a spanner in the works and he doesn't know what to do. Could some wise MNetters help us please?

OP posts:
mast0650 · 07/10/2022 12:11

I'm not really an expert. I am a tutor with lots of experience of admissions at Oxford, not in mathematics. I do however speak to tutors in other subjects. My best guess based on that would be that Cambridge mathematics are not very interested in breadth. They will however put a lot of weight on the STEP result. Therefore if there is concern about STEP then I think the school is probably right and Maths, FM, Physics will be better than adding in Chemistry. However, I don't believe there is anything to stop a student applying with 4 A-levels and then dropping down to 3. The offer will always be based on 3 and Cambridge Mathematics requires only Maths and Further Maths. I suspect quite a few of our students do that.

Malbecfan · 07/10/2022 13:11

As a 6th form teacher (not Maths), if he is set on Maths then dropping Chemistry is probably a good move. Cambridge insists on STEP and I know it's really hard. However, if he is considering any other science or NatSci, ditch STEP and keep Chemistry.

poetryandwine · 07/10/2022 15:33

Hi, OP -

I am a former STEM admissions tutor at a Russell Group university. My School is ranked slightly behind Oxbridge/Imperial/Warwick in my discipline.

I think the advice to drop an AL, probably Chemistry, is wise. Firstly, if your DS presents 4 ALs, some unis — specifically Imperial — may make a 4 AL offer. Secondly, Cambridge and possibly Warwick, probably Imperial, possibly other unis of this calibre, will want STEP. And Cambridge sets STEP and sets the grade boundaries so that approximately 50% of Cambridge offer holders will fail this last hurdle. I think almost everyone who truly loves maths and is serious about doing it at this level is better off preparing for STEP than doing a 4th AL.

IMO it is vital that everyone holding a STEP-conditional Firm offer have a non-STEP Insurance choice.

Good luck to your DS.

cptartapp · 07/10/2022 15:43

My nephew took 4 A levels this year alongside STEP applying for Warwick for maths. He came out with two A* in Maths and FM, an A in Physics and a B in history. Absolutely flunked the STEP, which sadly put paid to Warwick and he ended up at York.
He regrets taking four A levels alongside STEP. Would rather be at Warwick than have that B in History.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/10/2022 15:51

However, if he is considering any other science or NatSci, ditch STEP and keep Chemistry.

Probably best to ditch the chemistry. Maths, FM and physics is a good combo for maths (obv), mathematical/theoretical physics, normal physics, engineering, comp sci .

Fwiw my dd did engineering at Cambridge with just double maths and physics. Maybe you're more likely to get an offer if you've got 4 A levels on the table, but there's no point if you don't get the required grades.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/10/2022 15:55

The reason for considering what apart from maths might be possible is that some students don't find being a mathmo suits them; Cambridge is good about allowing students to switch courses (sometimes from scratch, sometimes from yr 2 I believe) - but obviously only to courses congruent with the achieved a levels.

pepperaunt · 07/10/2022 17:54

Just as an FYI my DD took the same 4 A Levels. Her top 3 offers (Cambridge, Imperial, Durham) all consisted of 4 required grades.

Genegenieee · 07/10/2022 19:01

My daughter has just started at Cambridge, maths - so went through the application process last year

She was doing the same four A levels as your DS, and all her offers were for only 3 A levels (so same from Cambridge, St Andrews, Durham, Warwick, Manchester).

Her offer from C was

A* Maths
A* FM
A Physics
Plus STEP - 1,1

So no mention of chemistry at all
I think if 4th A level creates a risk to the other 3 and success in the STEP exams

Let me know if any questions I can ask of her

HewasH20 · 07/10/2022 19:20

Some DC have received offers from Cambridge fir A for maths, then A* for their other 2 or 3 A levels plus STEP. It's horrible seeing posts on results day with DC achieving their A level grade offers but missing STEP. Focus on that.

superram · 07/10/2022 19:24

All unis offer on 3, if you offer 4 they generally want top grades in 4. Drop it and concentrate on STEP.

Original poster
UcasQuandary · 07/10/2022 19:41

Thanks everyone that's all very helpful. I'll show him this thread and let him decide what to do next.

But it seems the consensus is to drop the 4th and concentrate on STEP.

Thanks again.

OP posts:
fUNNYfACE36 · 07/10/2022 22:33

One of my dc took mats at Cambridge. He dad ritually everyone had done 4 A levels.z

fUNNYfACE36 · 07/10/2022 22:34

He said virtually

poetryandwine · 07/10/2022 23:00

Your DS can research which C Colleges are more likely to make an offer on 3 ALs

ladygrinningsoul · 08/10/2022 08:31

@UcasQuandary DS did this last year, but in January after he had received the Cambridge offer. He subsequently received offers from St Andrews and Durham. Definitely keep physics though - lots of overlap with maths.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/10/2022 08:40

DS did this last year, but in January after he had received the Cambridge offer.

He was lucky if he applied while he was doing 4 A levels but got an offer based only on three. It would be quite a risky strategy to assume that it would be possible to drop the 4th subject after applications.

ladygrinningsoul · 08/10/2022 09:07

To be clear, the offers he'd already received, including the Cambridge one, specified 3 A level grades. And he contacted the other two universities who had already made offers before dropping the 4th A level to see if it it was OK with them. It was. The last 2 offers were made several weeks after he contacted them to say he was dropping the 4th A level.

Ellmau · 08/10/2022 21:08

Drop chemistry.

beeswain · 08/10/2022 21:53

I think the issue with Cambridge is that if dc take 4 A levels then their offer is based on 4, whereas taking 3 the offer is based on those 3. STEP is hard and needs practice. Do check entry requirements of different colleges.

Neolara · 08/10/2022 22:00

My dd applied to Oxford, Bath, York and Southampton to do maths. She was predicted 3 A* and an A. She did not get an offer from from Oxford and her offers for the other unis were all based on only 3 A levels.

Original poster
UcasQuandary · 09/10/2022 12:37

He definitely doesn’t want to risk getting an offer on all 4 as some DC seem to have had. He will be sending his ucas form off tomorrow (hopefully!) with just the 3 A-levels, then he can concentrate on the STEP papers, which he enjoys anyway. He’s unlikely to get an offer from C anyway but worth a try.
Thanks all.

OP posts:
LondonMischief · 09/10/2022 13:04

Do many at his school do 4 Alevel?
Because in the 2020 Maths open day, the admissions tutor who also interview at a number of different colleges said that May wonder why someone’s is doing 3 A levels when their school supports those doing 4, and May think the student can’t cope with the workload at Cambridge and would be better applying elsewhere where the course may be more suitable.

LondonMischief · 09/10/2022 13:07

Let me look for the YouTube link…

Lilacsunflowers · 09/10/2022 14:26

At our school pupils start 6th form with 4A levels (or 5 if including Further Maths).

They can take one subject as AS and continue with 3 A levels (or 4 if including Further Maths)

Many successful applicants at Cambridge and Imperial will offer at least 3 A levels especially if including Further Maths.

If an applicant offers 4 A levels then the offer is a little lower than if they offer only 3, in our experience.