Drop 4th A-level to concentrate on STEP urgent help

[UcasQuandary]

My DS, at state 6th form college, is in the process of applying to top unis (Cambridge being one) to study Maths. Obviously this is an early application and the deadline is next week! (I'm slightly starting to panic).
He is currently studying 4 A-levels - Maths, F. Maths, Physics, Chemistry. But he has been advised by his teachers to drop either Chemistry or Physics to concentrate on the STEP exam. They feel 4 A-levels plus STEP practise will spread him too thin.

My question is - would this put him at a disadvantage on his application having just 3 A-levels, one of which is F.Maths? If not, would dropping Chemistry or Physics be better?

His predicted grades are Maths - A star, F. Maths- A star, Physics -A, Chemistry -A.

He prefers Physics to Chemistry as it's obviously more like Maths but does dropping Chemistry make his A-levels too limited? Is Maths, F. Maths, Physics enough to get an offer at Cambridge, UCL, Warwick etc?

He was ready to press send on his application today but now they've thrown a spanner in the works and he doesn't know what to do. Could some wise MNetters help us please?

Sorry that should say 'successful applicants at Cambridge and Imperial offer 4 A levels'

You are putting so much pressure on him! Back off a bit. Yes, 4 A levels and a STEP exam is too much.

Is he ever allowed out with his mates? Universities also consider other things like socialisation/sports/outside interests rather than just being locked in a library studying... this is his life. Not yours.

Ha ha thanks @GreenFingersWouldBeHandy no I never let him out with his mates, I lock him in the cupboard under the stairs where he must get A*s on all his tests before I even let him eat.

Seriously I know in MN land I'm not supposed to help my kids after the age of 2 (or is it 18 months?) but he just wanted a bit of advice so I thought I'd ask on here, where members are very knowledgeable about these things and have been through it all before. How is a 17 yr old supposed to navigate all this by himself with no input?

Fwiw I've told him I'll support him whatever he chooses to do in life whether that's apply for uni or join the circus. But thanks anyway.

A very few do 4 and only F. Maths, I think he is one of about 5.
Tbh the college is not very good - think teachers not turning up to lessons, or telling the DC to go to the library instead of actually bothering teaching them, that sort of thing. So he is already swimming against the tide to compete with DC from private/grammar schools to get a place at a decent uni.

Universities also consider other things like socialisation/sports/outside interests rather than just being locked in a library studying

Actually @GreenFingersWouldBeHandy the top universities do not care one dot for any of that unless they play sports or row at a high level that would benefit the university. The competitive entry universities care about your supercurriculars not extra curriculars. They don't really care if you have a Saturday job but care that you have read books, attended talks, possibly attended masterclasses or summer schools for your chosen subject and show that you are invested in your future. To paraphrase Cambridge admissions, that you will get out of bed when it is pouring with rain and attend lectures, actually do assignments. This is all from Cambridge University outreach who worked in my child's sixth form to engage state school children. We as parents were given a presentation evening on it.

I completely agree with PP who said have an insurance that doesn't require STEP or requires a different entrance test like MAT which is taken in November and the results are known before they university offer.

@UcasQuandary I am sure your son has seen this on Cambridge web page re step prep? But wanted to double check as there is prep he can start with now

www.maths.cam.ac.uk/outreach/step-preparation-support-widening-participation

There was also someone who posted last year on the oxbridge thread who is involved in a step preparation course for state school applicants that I think that runs after they get an offer. DD didn't do this (was at an independent) but has now just started at C and there are a number in her college that did do this course. Someone else on here will know more.

If an applicant offers 4 A levels then the offer is a little lower than if they offer only 3, in our experience.

That's not the impression I've got from DD, would be unwise to count on that.

Genegenieee yes we have seen that, thanks. Warwick uni also said they send out help for the STEP prep with their offers for anyone who needs it.

DS has chosen a couple of unis that don't require STEP too so he's covered all bases just in case.

I don't think that's right either.

DD's Cambridge offer for maths ignored chemistry as her 4th A level and stipulated grades for the other 3 but it was def the college's standard offer.

she had standard offers from all her unis except St Andrews who gave her a lower offer than their standard.

Good luck to him @UcasQuandary !

Oh weird it dropped my message - which said good luck to him @UcasQuandary !

Thanks Genegenieee

Both my dc did 4 A levels and almost all offers received were lower than those required for 3 A levels.

Eg Imperial required one A star and three As. Applicants with only 3 A levels needed two A stars and one A!

Cambridge gets up to all sorts. Quite a few natsci applicants from our school get offers that only ask for three grades, but they specify further maths, physics and chem, so the straight maths gets thrown in for free. Eg require a star for further maths, and an a dtar and an a from physics and chemistry so sort of a 3 a star offer in disguise

Btw, agree with the concensus, especially if coming from a low ish achieving state school.

Ds just started Maths at C. State school, 3 A levels ( Maths, further and physics),
Step prep takes a lot of time and both Warwick and Cambridgr offer state school offer holders tuition sessions which were helpful.

Good luck!

My son did 4 A levels. Went to Warwick for maths. Various offers but without STEP needed 3 A star OR 2 A stars in maths and fm and 2 As. So number of A levels did matter.

As others have said, three A levels is absolutely fine and a wise route to have taken. STEP prep takes a lot of practise.

In the mean time, get him to practise explaining maths problems out loud as he solves them, which willl help with his interview.

His college is definitely low achieving so 3 is probably the way to go. It's a shame he doesn't qualify for the contextual offers, the school part does but not our address.

Interesting how different DC get different offers from the same unis depending on their A-levels.

Thanks VinoEsmeralda and well done your DS.

I'll tell him to start doing that OhYouBadBadKitten on the off chance he is lucky enough to get an interview.

Thanks everyone.

Has he looked at Zero Gravity OP? My dd is doing same A levels and has been matched with a 2nd year mentor in Cambridge for weekly help with STEP and interview technique (as a state school pupil). It seems to be a good scheme. He may already have done it of course

@OhYouBadBadKitten ’s advice that your DS practise explaining his workings aloud is excellent, and important. If he doesn’t have a well informed listener amongst his family or friendship group, recording himself and analysing his recordings for fluency is a good way to go.

This really will help with his interviews at top Maths Schools

@UcasQuandary Before deciding on 3, can I just check that they did not take A-level maths at the end of lower sixth? Students at some schools do, in which case Cambridge and other of the most academically rigorous universities would expect a student who is good enough to study at them to be able to cope with 3 A-levels in Upper sixth.
For a child at a high performing sixth form, my advice would probably be that if you think you are good enough to go to Cambridge then you ought to be good enough to do 4 A-levels. That said many successful applicants to Cambridge do 3 A-levels, and in your son's case the challenges of doing well are already greater, so doing 3 makes sense.
I know more about Oxford's widening participation scheme than Cambridge's, but do not be shy in helping your son be in touch with them for advice. UCAS recently (1st September) had a webinar with the always helpful Mike Nicholson who is director of admissions at Cambridge, you may want to listen to what he has to say, although it is more aimed at teachers.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to correct a pp. I have yet to meet (and I have met many) anyone involved in university admissions who has any interest in socialising or extra-curricular activities unless they have a direct impact on the subject they want to study. But, particularly for courses where there is an interview a student who is involved in a range of activities is likely to have developed skills that will help them do better at interview.

I've never heard of zero gravity, Luckyme2 is that something they do through the school?

No jgw1 he didn't take the Maths A-level last year, he is doing them side by side with different teachers over the 2 years.

It's a real shame his isn't a high performing school as he is more than capable of doing the 4 but I think I underestimated the difference a really good teacher can make. His Maths teachers are very good but the others are not so good, so dropping one is what he is now planning on doing.

Not through the school no. When DD went to Cambridge open day one of the students told us about it. If you search for zero gravity online I think you DS can register and then go through a process whereby they link him to a current Cambridge student. Dd is finding it really helpful with STEP prep and interview tips too (if she’s lucky enough to get one of course) as (as her mentor told her) he was lucky in private school to get a lot of help with interview prep but they literally do nothing like that in her school. She has done her maths A level in lower sixth though so is doing further maths, physics and chemistry now in year 13.