DD and too many A levels - is this a good idea?

[stoneysongs]

Sorry for the length - DD did well in her GCSEs and has started sixth form college doing maths, biology, psychology and French A levels. She isn't sure what she wants to do later but right now is thinking about Human Sciences.

She also wants to do history but knows that 5 A levels is a bad idea. The question is what to drop and so far biology is the favourite for that, because it's difficult. (Having talked about this I think it's only difficult because the way of learning is new - she just needs to get used to it.) I also suspect that she hasn't made a friend yet in her biology class and one of the friends she has made is giving history the hard sell, but she has only been there a week so all of that will change.

She is enjoying all her subjects so far and thinks that although biology is her least favourite, it would be useful for human sciences so she wants to carry on with it for that reason.

My question is - is this a good solution if the college will let her do it - bearing in mind we are in Wales, so separate AS and A2 qualifications.

Y12 do maths, biology, psychology and history and take 4 x AS. Y13 drop history and do AS french instead (if she wants to). So she might end up with 3 x A levels and 2 x AS. I guess she could then do another year at college to convert them to full A levels if she wanted to (she won't want to), or could just use the 3 x A levels to apply to uni.

Is that crazy? I am trying to find a solution she can live with that keeps as many doors open as possible, because she is very unsure about what to do next. She knows that she only needs 3 A levels for uni but there is no way she will give up another one. Any advice gratefully received.

Secondary school teacher with 28 years experience here. 5 A levels is a really bad idea . I teach in a very academic school, top 100 for results, and we only let students do 3 A levels unless you count further maths. The workload is huge. I would advise dropping Biology, it is actually a tricky A level and also dropping down to three at A2. Not really sure why some schools are doing AS given that all courses are now linear.

If she doesn’t like Biology, why does she want to do Human Sciences?

I don't think AS levels are a thing anymore?? My dd is doing 3 but she was also doing core maths last year so 4 and that was hard going. I defo wouldn't recommend 5. She's only got 3 this year and is managing the workload much better. She is a very bright girl too who thrives under pressure but it was very hard going last year.

@Cleopatra67 OP is in Wales - think it's standard to do AS there?

I think DD should pick 4 subjects at most, with the view that she might drop one at end of Year 12 (as would be "normal"). Trying to squeeze in a 5th subject will just be far too much work.

I'd suggest she thinks back to why she chose her original 4 subjects - what has changed (other than friend bigging up history) that's made her dither? If she's finding biology hard, I'd suggest a frank conversation with the teacher about what the subject involves, so she can make a more informed decision on whether it's just getting a matter of getting used to it and she'll settle in, or something more.

I think it depends on the student. I did five A Levels and it worked out well for me. I would've liked to have done six, because I found it difficult to choose.
This was 1995.

@Cleopatra67 OP has said why they're doing AS - they're in Wales where A levels are (sensibly) still not decoupled.

Don't do a second AS in year 13. She should be focussing on what she needs to get her uni grades by then.

Agree Human Science seems an odd choice for someone who isn't keen on Biology. She needs to really think about that. Perhaps a straight Psychology degree instead?

As for keeping options open, the A level route really isn't the way to do this - IB would have been. But in the UK we do expect sixth formers to start to specialise.

I think that’s tougher than 4 As probably, which is quite tough enough. Unless she’s very academic and also very organised, the school may advice her to drop one at the end of this year anyway - it’s common - far better to have 3 strong A levels than 4 weaker ones.

She’s still a kid and she hasn’t understood yet that life is about making choices so help her with that or she is going to get herself into an overwhelmed mess.

work it through with her and with her permission, get advice from the school too -

If she wants to do human science then biology is the most important course she is doing. She should not normally consider dropping it.

Maths is a very good thing to have. It also keeps a lot of doors open should she suddenly fancy a well paid career in data science or banking 😁

French isn’t directly useful, but having a language may be very useful later if she wants to go live in France or Canada.

History has no direct relevance, it’s also heavy on reading and essay writing. If she really wants to take it as a passion subject, do her skills lend themselves to it - it could easily derail other subjects if they don’t.

Psychology - even if she wants to do this for a degree, there’s no actual need to take it for A level (although it will likely make her undergraduate year easier). It’s less important than biology and is therefore droppable. However, it’s a less intense subject that history (for most people) so is less likely to overwhelm her.

5 is too many, 4 is a push, unis only expect 3 (unless FM)

Having done a similar range and quantity of AS levels, I would advise dropping either psychology or history (probably psychology as it doesn't go into much depth at A-level and it's really easy to self-study it later whereas trying to study history without strong history skills leads to taking documentaries at their face value) if she doesn't want them as a degree option.

The other three are really useful for future career choice after uni, e.g. French for getting a job in a French-speaking country or working in an English-speaking country but with the French-speaking clients, biology is useful if she want to not only study science but work in anything science based (or retrain) later, e.g she'd need it to go into nursing, physiotherapy, science teacher etc and maths is usually required by employers who are recruiting non-computing grads for programming/computer science roles.

So those are three solid career A-levels whereas I've never yet seen a job advertised that's looking for A-level history/psychology so I'd recommend picking one of them only and simplifying her workload, especially as these 5 choices aren't linked. It's easy to do 5 or 6 A-levels when they're linked in the usual clusters e.g:

Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology

Biology, Human Biology, Psychology, PE, Sociology.

History, Government and Politics, English Literature, English Language, Drama and Theatre Studies.

French, English Language, Government and Politics, Law, Geography

Do you see how usually if you do five they'd be more closely-linked? That's usually how people make it work because otherwise the workload for each separate subject is massive with very little overlap and that's when it becomes a really bad idea. Very surprised in this day and age the school haven't advised on this.

Thanks for the replies, very helpful - yes we are in Wales which still has stand alone AS qualifications.

She does like biology, enjoyed GCSE and did well. I think she has been freaked out by a different way of learning - first homework was some questions on a topic they are about to be taught, so she had to find out the answers for herself. The college is very into independent learning whereas school wasn't. She said she felt thick because she didn't know the answers.

She is also thinking about psychology and anthropology courses, so to her HS seems an interesting mix with her interest in biology too.

I will have another conversation about biology and whether she thinks it's actually difficult to understand, and whether she finds it interesting. I did biology A level, as did her brother who has just finished Y13, I don't think it's too hard for her but there is a lot of content.

She is really enjoying psychology so far but early days. I am a bit worried about the history work load because she did not enjoy GCSE history revision 😬
She did do well though and likes the topics they are covering at A level.

Just to clarify there was a typo, I meant it's EASIER to do 5 or 6 A-levels if you group them, not easy. It's never easy, lol.

FWIW as she sounds like she has very wide interests, I studied archaeology for my degree/master's and it was a very broad, open-ended subject which drew on all my A-levels - I did geography, psychology, history, French, maths and drama/theatre studies for AS and carried geography, psychology, maths and history through to A2 (and spectacularly failed A2 maths due to not having enough time to work through it when things got difficult).

I think my only regret was biology would have been far more useful for my degree for all the bone analysis, biological science stuff, animal taphonomy, pathology etc involved in the scientific side of archaeology.

Former STEM admissions tutor here. My first thought is also to question whether Human Sciences is right for your DD if she doesn’t much like biology.

But it might be a better plan for her to find no more than four AS subjects she likes best, and to choose her degree programme from her strengths within these subjects. I too generally advocate for concentrating on three subjects at A2. I agree that for the mathematically gifted, FM is more like half an AL; however for those who struggle with it, FM really carries the burden of a full AL although it can make Maths feel easier.

Under no circs would I recommend picking up another AS subject in Y13. The chances of something going wrong, or the subject distracting from the three A2 subjects, are too high. And admissions tutors really will not care. Even Oxbridge prefer depth to breadth.

Just seen your update OP, get her to have a look at the difference between anthropology and archaeology in the UK (totally different definitions for the two subjects in the US) and the difference between psychology and anthropology to help her clarify which she wants to do. If she's more interested in psychology/forensic anthropology, the psychology A-level might be worth doing. If she's more interested in anthropology as it applies to the past, history is the way to go.

Whichever way she looks at it, biology will be extremely useful but not a dealbreaker for any of them as she can work around not having a deep understanding of biology by making different module choices/doing her independent study modules e.g. dissertation on non-biology topics.

It is possible to study French in an extra-curricular way, if what she wants is the language and culture more than the A-level for university admissions. e.g. language summer school or pick the language up at uni where may unis offer extracurricular language classes.

My son started doing 5, when he got to year 13 the teachers told him to drop 2 and just do 3

What does she want to do at uni? For a lot of sciencey biology courses you need chemistry too. I regretted not taking chemistry and instead doing biology plus 3 Humanities as it pushed me on more of a humanities route. Fwiw I did 4 a levels but would have struggled with 5.

Thank you everyone for your very useful and interesting replies - archaeology is a good idea that she hasn't yet considered. She is so unsure of what she wants to do, but I agree of those subjects maths and biology are probably the most useful for keeping doors open. I don't mind what she does but just trying to avoid regrets later! I think your advice is good and she needs to pick two from psychology, history and French to go with maths and biology, stick with four at AS with a view to giving one up after Y12.

I did 6 AS levels, 5 A Levels. Granted one was general studies. A B B C C. I had no idea what i wanted to do, was just hedging my bets 😆

This is her position exactly @Flumpymc 😂

That is true @erinaceus, I will make that point about French.

I was actively encouraged in to a 6th AS by my transition tutor, who said i could just choose to drop one after Christmas. Suspect to do with funding, but i loved them all and didn't want to drop any. Dropped a subject I got an A in at AS because it wasn't relevant at all to anything I would have gone on to have a career in. It was tough not having the same amount of time off as my friends and I suspect if I'd taken less subjects, I could have had three As (I'm old. I think there's A*s now is there?) But ultimately I don't feel it changed my path at all 🤷🏻‍♀️

Why are 4 a levels a bad idea? I did 5 and didn't find it too taxing. (still had lots of time for going out partying and competitive sporting hobby)

I wouldn't encourage her to drop anything if she enjoys them and shes doing well at them.

I agree 4 A levels are doable depending on how she finds the work load. DS did 3 and did not exert himself in the slightest until the spring of Y13. A few people in his year did 5 too. It will be up to her whether she takes all four through to the end but I think she's capable of doing it. Equally dropping one after Y12 is fine too.

Just had a brief chat and after all that she thinks she will stick with what she's doing. History has always been there as an idea but I am guessing it becomes more of a thing after she's spent time with the friend who is doing history and would no doubt like to have DD in her class. I am pleased because I think history would probably be more demanding than French or psychology and wouldn't provide many additional options for uni. Thank you everyone.

They revamped A levels in England a few years ago so there is a lot more content. Most unis just offer on three A levels. Psychology would fit well with Biology and some courses will treat it as a science.

Hi @Cleopatra67 (or anyone else)

Why does your school only allow FM as a 4th A level?
What's so special/different about FM?

My son has just started in year 12 and he's doing Chemistry, Physics, Maths and FM and I'm worried it might be too much but he is very good at maths and got 9s in all the maths and science subjects in GCSEs.