DD and too many A levels - is this a good idea?

[stoneysongs]

Sorry for the length - DD did well in her GCSEs and has started sixth form college doing maths, biology, psychology and French A levels. She isn't sure what she wants to do later but right now is thinking about Human Sciences.

She also wants to do history but knows that 5 A levels is a bad idea. The question is what to drop and so far biology is the favourite for that, because it's difficult. (Having talked about this I think it's only difficult because the way of learning is new - she just needs to get used to it.) I also suspect that she hasn't made a friend yet in her biology class and one of the friends she has made is giving history the hard sell, but she has only been there a week so all of that will change.

She is enjoying all her subjects so far and thinks that although biology is her least favourite, it would be useful for human sciences so she wants to carry on with it for that reason.

My question is - is this a good solution if the college will let her do it - bearing in mind we are in Wales, so separate AS and A2 qualifications.

Y12 do maths, biology, psychology and history and take 4 x AS. Y13 drop history and do AS french instead (if she wants to). So she might end up with 3 x A levels and 2 x AS. I guess she could then do another year at college to convert them to full A levels if she wanted to (she won't want to), or could just use the 3 x A levels to apply to uni.

Is that crazy? I am trying to find a solution she can live with that keeps as many doors open as possible, because she is very unsure about what to do next. She knows that she only needs 3 A levels for uni but there is no way she will give up another one. Any advice gratefully received.

Because if FM is the third A Level, and dc realises that either they don't live and dream maths any more, or that compared to GCSE FM is really really hard, then they have no wiggle room to drop it in favour of something else.

Can you imagine getting a 9 at GCSE, deciding you want to do a Maths degree, and taking say Computer Science, Maths and FM. Then deciding that you don't want to do a Maths degree at all, and Chemistry sounds fun. You're pretty much stuck.

I think a lot of places only allow 3 A levels unless one is FM and then you can do 4. And it's because if you're doing maths, FM is not as much work as doing say, history. It's a bit like getting 4 A levels for the workload of 3.5. Which is why some HE courses will not accept maths and FM as two out of three A levels, a bit like many won't accept biology and human biology as two separate A levels either.

Ah ok. Sorry, ignore me! I did mine about 10 years ago.

A level biology is difficult. Both my DCs did Maths/science A levels and both though Biology hardest.

That's interesting - DS started off doing chemistry, maths, biology and physics because he wanted to try them all before deciding on 3. He thought biology was the easiest and would rank them in order of difficulty physics, chemistry, maths, biology.

Having said that, while he found the concepts easier to understand, grappling with the biology marking system is a whole other world of pain and it's not always easy to convert knowledge into marks. I guess that depends on the exam board though.

When did you do your A levels? I did five back in the dark ages but the reality in those days was that one (Music) was mostly covered by my Grade 8 music and theory exams - the one remaining paper could have been left empty and I'd still have passed. Of the others, by doing Bio/Chem/Phys/Pure&Applied Maths I was pretty much getting 4 subjects for the price of three due to overlaps in the syllabi.

When mine did A levels their school would allow 4 to AS but only 3 to A (other than FM) because universities want three good A levels rather than 4 middling grades.

I’m in wales and when In 6th form (about 18 years ago 😱) it was the norm to do 4 a levels but drop one for AS. Although I only did 3 a levels and no AS because I hated history and dropped it before end of year 12. I loved biology though and I do think it would be useful if she wants to do human sciences in uni. I think 5 alevels would be far too many. I would suggest 4 and drop one end of year 12 if needed so she has just the AS in that subject

If she wants to do Human Sciences as a degree, why on Earth would she give up Biology and take up History?? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

TBH, she'd be better off dropping French and just sticking with Maths, Biology and Psychology. She doesn't need more than three A levels, four is pushing it and even considering five, particularly in a subject that's irrelevant to her hoped-for degree choice, would be madness.

Bear in mind Psychology A level is not a prerequisite for the degree course and there is some overlap for those who take it.

I don’t know whether the previous posters who did A levels a while ago realise you can’t resit papers anymore to bring your grade up.

I did 5 A levels and it was fine, but one was music and I did loads of it out of school so was v easy for me and perhaps doesn’t count. Other 4 were maths, biology, English and history so not much overlap content wise. Had no clue what I wanted to do, ended up doing a history degree and now a lawyer.

Anyway, for the OP’s DD I’d recommend dropping psychology as it is (or at least was) a less respected subject than the others on the list. It’s also not a prerequisite for studying psychology at degree level, which maths and bio would stand her in good stead for.

Stealth boast? You do sound exceptionally bright. Most students would find that quite a stretch and unattainable, and most schools and colleges wouldn't be able to fit that many subjects into the curriculum.

@singingstones Unless your DD is only going to be looking at universities that look at UCAS points instead of A level grades there isn't much point in picking up UCAS points for extra AS levels as most universities just want three excellent grades. So AAA or higher will always be regarded more highly than AABB.

Thank you, yes she is going to stick with four this year and make a decision after AS exams about whether to drop one or continue with 4. By that time she will hopefully know what she wants to apply for, what grades she needs and can be tactical about maximising her chances.

Good idea @singingstones. DD started with 4, then dropped the subject she hated after AS levels. She continued with 3 and the AABB she achieved at AS level became AAA at A level. This was in England, and her A levels were linear so were tougher than the coupled A levels of previous years.

I did 5, it was hard but I got AAAAB. I was an absolute dork though and lived in the library (still do) so I enjoyed it.
I don't think I'd want mine doing that many though. Pressure was insane and this was pre social media and the dystopian hellscape we live in now. Unis want 3 so I'd do 4 at a push

Taking 5 A’levels is unnecessary unless a student wishes to do the extra work. It will not give an advantage for university courses or competitive graduate schemes, where 3 A’levels is sufficient.

Dd was unsure what she wanted to do and started with FM, Maths, chemistry, biology and economics. Dd is very academic but the workload was insane. She dropped Further maths once decided she wanted to do medicine. Loved English and French, went to English classes as she liked it so much. Carried on doing French outside school for some international qualification( can't remember its name)
Some kids do find it hard to choose. Her university only wanted three subjects.
Don't do 5 AS levels... not worth it.

@NiteCat I believe funding is for 3 A levels and FM comes under maybe a different funding which is why it is a 4th A level and seen as an addition to the maths A level. More a developing and broadening of a subject ie maths.

Re the difficulty my son did maths and fm and got A⃰ s in both. Half the timetable is maths so you have to love it and practise it. Understanding a concept is one thing, applying it ie by doing practise questions usually set as homework or additional study is another. Lots of students drop fm usually because they lose the love of maths or they start to struggle but don't do enough to address that issue. Or they sacrifice fm in favour of bringing up the grade of another subject. That goes for all A levels. They are a bit harder but a good attitude to study and a good work ethic means they are completely doable.

Also it depends on the maths grades students come in with. For maths at my son's sixth form you needed a GCSE grade 6 and for fm a 7. I know some maths teachers would say an 8 for fm to have a better base of knowledge. Your son got a 9 so is far more likely to do well at A level maths and fm. My son did 2 years of maths A level content in year 12 then fm at the end of year 12 and into year 13 and sat both exams in year 13.

Re the general is 4 A levels too much, in 2022 the number of A levels taken by students aged 18 was

65% took 3
4.8% took 4
0.1% took 5 (or 185 students)

Some took 1 or 2 A levels that may or may not be combined with other qualifications. From non-gov sources around half of the 4th A levels were fm with a larger percentage of those in independent schools taking it. HTH.

I did three A levels (English Literature, French and Politics) and two AS levels (Theatre Studies and History). I dropped TS after the AS exams and self-taught myself History in Y13, alongside Latin GCSE. I also sat AE level English at the end of Y12.

HOWEVER, that was in the early 00s - syllabi are much more content-heavy since Gove's reforms. Your DD would be much better off starting with four AS levels and potentially dropping one at the end of Y12 (although I don't think it's a bad thing for bright pupils to continue with four A levels if they're coping with the workload; it's excellent preparation for university!).

I think the French A Level is a red herring, as I understand it there is quite a lot of literature in it rather than learning the language.

I would have suggested the Erasmus scheme but since leaving the EU it has been replaced with the 'Turing scheme', if she were to do this then she would spend a year in a French speaking country so it could be France, Canada or a less obvious country maybe in Africa or central America.

educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2021/08/05/whats-the-difference-between-the-new-turing-scheme-and-erasmus/

Unis will just interpret 5 as not being clear about choices. It won't add anything if she's got the UCAS points.

Thanks @TheBoxOfWhat

We're in Wales too. DS sat his A levels this year, he studied 4 subjects plus Bacc which is compulsory. There was absolutely no advantage in studying 4 when it came to applying to university - all of the universities that he applied to (RG) offer based on 3 A level grades. I believe some universities do still offer based on points but they tend to be much lower points and I imagine it's unlikely that your DD would be applying to them if she has the academic ability to be considering 4 or 5 subjects.

DD sat her GCSEs this year and has just started A levels. Based on DS' experience she has decided to only study 3 subjects despite actually have done slightly better at GCSE (they both had all A & A, but DD had more at A). She feels that it will be easier to achieve high A level grades in 3 subjects than 4 as she'll have more time to concentrate on each one.

That should have read "they both had all A star & A, but DD had more at A star", forgot that asterisks bolded text on MN!

Unfortunately, the Gove reforms sacrificed breadth in prioritising ‘rigour’ (ie narrow and intense focus) so anyone posting their A Level experience more than a couple of years ago is out of touch really. It’s ridiculous really that in this day and age, 15 year olds have to narrow their future career choices to fit a 1960s framework of classical subjects. The workload for content heavy subjects like Biology and History now is very heavy indeed and as posters above have commented they are less objective exams to grade vs eg maths. Bear in mind also that exams seem to be scheduled around the clusters that Peekaboo posted above so if you have an unconventional choice you might end up with the exams themselves clumped together which makes exam season a dreadful slog. Maths stand alone also competes with peers doing the Maths FM and Physics cluster making a top grade harder to attain. So all in all, they have made it very hard for generalists to pursue subjects for the love of subjects. Mental health considerations also a factor for that type of work load. Shame the IB a isn’t an option.