Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

AS result and Uni offers

44 replies

Hopeful646 · 19/08/2022 08:42

Hi , my DS got his Further Maths AS result yesterday which was a B , whilst this is an excellent grade he was hoping for an A .
He is wanting to study Physics at uni , the unis he is considering all have high entry requirements (2 A stars and an A ) as he was predicted this he thought applying to those would be ok but he's now worried he won't get offers as his AS is only a B .
Does anyone have any experience as to how much notice the uni's take of the AS grade ?. Thank you

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 19/08/2022 08:55

It may not matter. The primary consideration should be whether his AL PGs will be suitable.

My question as a former STEM admissions tutor is whether FM is a recommended subject? That’s code for ‘take it if your school or college offers it’. (Some unis use this language to avoid discriminating against pupils who don’t have access to FM.) In that case, assuming his AS result is a final qualification, the combination of not having full FM and the B may be a problem.

Original poster
Hopeful646 · 19/08/2022 09:01

Thanks for replying . He is carrying on with further maths next year to A level and also does Maths, Physics and chemistry. He is considering dropping Chemistry to focus on just 3 A levels .

OP posts:
Mindymomo · 19/08/2022 09:05

My son dropped one subject to concentrate on the others, as was recommended to him, he dropped English which he really enjoyed. Teachers then got him to do another course which took up way longer time than doing the English course would have and only gave him a few extra points.

poetryandwine · 19/08/2022 09:28

Hi, OP -

I am not a fan of four ALs, as I think it handicapping. Given that your DS is looking at Schools that will make a three AL offer and FM is def more useful for Physics than Chem is, dropping the Chem sounds good.

My only concern is whether he can get a PG of A in FM with the AS grade B? An insurance choice with lower requirements that he can feel good about is a necessity. However I know it was a tough year, so I hope he will have an opportunity to be reassessed before he makes his applications.

Original poster
Hopeful646 · 19/08/2022 09:57

Agree with you re dropping chemistry and focusing on 3.
It's very hard when they've not sat GCSEs to really get a feel of what they are likely to end up with . Need to encourage him to look at some more insurance options I think.

OP posts:
pinklavenders · 19/08/2022 11:46

It depends on how competitive the entry is. At Cambridge or Imperial most successful candidates will have 4 A levels (sometimes plus an additional AS) especially when one of them is FM.

KilaJumana · 20/08/2022 13:50

I am not a fan of four ALs, as I think it handicapping whilst I would completely agree for all other subjects; Ds would argue that if you are studying maths then further maths isn't a full A level but a complimentary A level.

Ds's sixth form only offer 4 A levels if the 4th one is further maths.

OP if your son knows which universities he is wishing to apply to get him to contact the admissions departments to make sure that they are happy with the 3 A levels being maths, fm and physics. I think it might only be some med courses that don't think that is a wide enough study area ie maths with further maths. Double check before he commits.

pinklavenders · 20/08/2022 15:33

Ds would argue that if you are studying maths then further maths isn't a full A level but a complimentary A level.

Yes, this is true. Many schools teach Maths in year 12 and FM in year 13, so time wise it's more like one A level too.

StillRowing · 20/08/2022 15:47

My sister did those 4 and got an A in further maths for As level. She then went on to get A* at a level.

I’d keep chemistry and do 4 A levels as some might argue further maths isn’t an A level on its own.

Original poster
Hopeful646 · 20/08/2022 16:44

That's my concern too about FM not being considered a full A level . Think he just wants to maximise his chance of getting the highest grades he can and wonders dropping to 3 may help that .
Thanks for taking the time to reply .

OP posts:
MatildaJayne · 20/08/2022 16:57

FM is definitely considered a full A level if looking at maths, physics or engineering courses. In fact it’s preferred. It’s only really medicine that doesn’t rate it as they want a broader mix of subjects. If he got a B in his AS, did he feel it was a blip? It’s possible to improve to an A, but an A* probably a bit out of reach in FM. My DS did AS levels, got an A in his AS in FM and an A in his A level (A star in maths, A in CS) and that combo was fine for a maths degree.

MatildaJayne · 20/08/2022 17:00

I also did a physics degree back in the 1980s. My school didn’t do FM A level and it took me a while to catch up in first year. The only issue might be if he’s likely to do better in chemistry A level than FM. 🤷🏼‍♀️

pinklavenders · 20/08/2022 17:50

He is wanting to study Physics at uni , the unis he is considering all have high entry requirements (2 A stars and an A )

He should definitely continue with FM in that case.

PacificState · 20/08/2022 20:54

The further maths debate is weird. I'm not saying PPs are wrong, maybe some unis genuinely don't rate it. My older son is doing maths at Oxford and they were very happy with three A levels of maths, FM and physics. Younger son has been advised same combination welcome at Oxford for engineering. (Whether he gets in very much still to be decided.)

poetryandwine · 20/08/2022 23:51

@PacificState is providing evidence for my case. @KilaJumana, @MatildaJayne and @pinklavenders have valid opinions but haven’t provided any evidence. I dare say that I am as plugged in as their sources, and I know many examples of successful applicants to top STEM Schools with three ALs, plus in some cases an EPQ and in all cases exceptional supracurriculars/extracurriculars/additional qualifications.

KilaJumana · 21/08/2022 08:15

@poetryandwine sadly I can't provide solid evidence but it definitely came from MN when we were looking ahead toward uni years ago. There were discussions on here around FM for uni admissions and I paid attention as we were making sure Ds chose a sixth form that offered it. At the time universities were saying FM would be beneficial for Computer Science which Ds is now studying at uni. That requirement has since disappeared but the course content hasn't changed which I feel backs up your not discriminating against those who do not have access to it.

I did caveat my post with it may be only med courses but I genuinely can't remember. I did recommend contacting admissions to check. You obviously have a better insight having been in admissions than me and sometimes sixth forms aren't the best at advising pupils and I was recommending to double check.

pinklavenders · 21/08/2022 08:25

The majority of successful candidates at some of the very competitive Engineering/Stem/Economics University courses have 4 Alevels including Further Maths. This is based on my experience, but I'm sure Universities provide details if asked (Freedom of Information etc)

pinklavenders · 21/08/2022 08:27

This is directly from the Cambridge website;

A-level applicants who receive an offer are usually doing (at least) 4 subjects. The ability to cope with a high workload is important since studying at Cambridge is intensive. The broad nature of the Economics course makes both sciences (e.g. Physics) and essay-based subjects (e.g. History) useful.

www.econ.cam.ac.uk/apply/ba-economics/course-prerequisites

PacificState · 21/08/2022 09:10

As someone said down thread, the maths/FM/physics combo is probably particularly prized for maths/physics/engineering courses. While there is plenty of overlap between them, they're not easy subjects to get straight A/A* in. FM sorts the kids from the goats when it comes to high level maths ability, and kids who're good at maths often find physics more of a challenge because (unlike maths) you can't do it all from first principles in an exam hall - you actually have to memorise a bunch of stuff, which mathsy kids often prefer not to!

The 4 A level thing, if it were a hard requirement, would also work against a lot of state school applicants wouldn't it? My sons went/go to a v good sixth form (lots of success at uni entry) and 3 is the maximum they can take. I wonder if the '4 a levels' guidance is a subtle signal to private school pupils (smaller class sizes, more resources) that they're expected to achieve a bit more? (Pure guesswork, that last bit!)

PacificState · 21/08/2022 09:12

@pinklavenders I wonder if the critical bit of that (economics at Cambridge) is that they want you to be accustomed to writing essays as well as being highly numerate. Maths/FM/physics combo gives you precisely 0 experience of synthesising narrative material.

MarchingFrogs · 21/08/2022 09:14

I did caveat my post with it may be only med courses but I genuinely can't remember.

At least a couple of years ago, but there were (?still are) courses at LSE for which FM was not accepted as one of only 3 A levels. Iirc, they were actually ones for which one might have expected that the greater emphasis on maths, the better.

MarchingFrogs · 21/08/2022 09:22

Okay, just looked at the site again and

However, the combination of Mathematics, Further Mathematics plus one other subject is considered insufficiently broad for many of our programmes.

www.lse.ac.uk/study-at-lse/Undergraduate/Prospective-Students/How-to-Apply/Admissions-Information

(See Group 4 in the table under 'MathematicsandFurtherMathematics'. I think it was the 'Finance' degree being in Group 3 that I was thinking of before)

AvocadoPlant · 21/08/2022 09:35

I have 2DC who studied maths and FM to A level (and both went in to do engineering degrees).
From memory, the first years work was slightly easier and the second year built on that, ie S1 M1 D1 modules studied in year 12, then S2 M2 etc in year 13.
Given your DS got a B in the AS, I think he needs to really understand why he lost the marks, if he’s working flat out and believes he’s understood as much as he’s able, then the B will be a fair representation of his ability, and it’s a great result.
But it’s a big ask (maybe impossible) to take that up 2 grades in a year to get A*

PacificState · 21/08/2022 09:38

I'd say most of those are subjects that require essay-writing @MarchingFrogs. Which is totally fair enough - my sons are useless at essays, as I am forcefully reminded every time I have to review anything they've written!

I will stop banging on (I gave up maths at o level, it's really not my thing) but I think it's important that anyone reading this and choosing a levels for maths, physics or engineering knows that maths/FM/physics is a desired combination for those subjects specifically. Quite possibly/preferably with a fourth if you want to do engineering at Cambridge or imperial in particular.

sendsummer · 21/08/2022 09:42

If he is absolutely sure that he wants to do physics or engineering then dropping chemistry is fine and best for him. However I will be blunt if he is thinking of applying to Imperial or Oxbridge for physics - I would have doubts he could cope with the intensity and level of the degree from that grade even in the context of 3 other A levels. Of course if the FM teaching had been poor or he had done minimal work so far that is a different story.

Swipe left for the next trending thread