2017 seems so long ago, now .....

[Xenia]

Continuation of our previous thread.

Good to hear all the news!

All of mine are job hunting to some extent at the moment.

My eldest (the medic) is busy studying for one of the training place exams next week. the competition is indeed fierce, in spite of so many of her peers emigrating at the moment.

Middle child is in his final year and applying for graduate posts.

Youngest has decided to do a placement year next year so is also job hunting!

Good luck to the job hunters. One of my sons applied for a legal job in the last hour - although some of the questions on the system were very US based - GPAs etc so I hope the employer can understand how for a UK role some of the answers may be different from for US applicants who would not be applying for the role anyway. We think he has a slim chance but it would be a good opportunity and was good practice for doing applications for newly qualified solicitor jobs.

ds has decided that corporate career in IT/banking is probably not for him ....although he still has 6 months of his grad scheme to run , he is thinking of going back to Uni to do MSc - possibly in remote sensing/Geographic/Geospatial information (GIS) and skills he has gained on training scheme will still be useful but he wants to have a more degree related career ( has BSc in Geography)
Has a few potential courses in mind (Glasgow and Edinburgh are contenders at the moment ) ...is thinking about taking a year out to do some travelling, but applying for MSc before he departs - he has quite a bit saved already but we'll probably help him out as we did with his sisters!
He probably would have done his MSc immediately after his undergraduate degree, that was out of the question due to the fieldwork restrictions because of Covid!
Good luck to everyone else's dd/ds and their careers

DD has several school friends who have gone into banking and who earn loads. Life as a junior doctor is pretty brutal, she can work up to 10 days in a row with up to 13 hours per day, and the pay per hour is not great (though because of the large number of hours she is fine.) She does not envy her banking friends at all. She prefers a job she enjoys.

Because mine went through London private schools we used to meet a lot of bankers. From about 40 redundancy is the big fear. And if you are made redundant finding another job can be a real challenge. DH in a public sector job is not earning nearly as much but is secure. Friends who are medics really flourish as they enter their 40s and 50s, with interesting careers involving practice, research and teaching. One friend who is past retirement age has been able to "retire and return". So gets her pension but still has a well paid part time job.

Security and job satisfaction are worth a lot. Good luck to your DS. Ours were the Covid affected students. I understand fully why they now want to spread their wings.

Decorhate, good luck to your medic. I do not understand why "they" are allowing the training bottleneck to happen. It is as if they are inviting young medics to emigrate. It is bizarre that there is no straight forward career progression.

HNY everyone, lovely to hear all the news.

There's still a way to go for us as student parents with DS1 redoing uni for medicine but the advantage has been having him home for a good long time over Christmas. We had ds2 for a flying visit between long on call shifts. Ds2 had told us he'd planned to come back for a visit this week during the strikes but his social life has taken priority so I'm happy he's happy.

Funny that you mentioned banking vs medicine because today ds2's old school friend who is now a city banker told him she wants to quit her highly paid job and do grad medicine instead. Ironic because ds has been quite resentful about how much she earns relative to him and after only half the time studying. I think it's actually helped ds realise that the grass isn't always greener, but he and friend have agreed the simplest thing would be for them both just to swap jobs!

Good luck to those doing the job applications. It will be great to hear updates here when they land The One.

Good to hear from another medic mum. DD is finding F1 is work hard, play hard. Not much time for trips home. DD is not in England so no strikes, lower pay and longer hours, but she still seems to be enjoying herself.

Another thing about banking is that there seems to be a lot of up or out. So whilst Goldman Sachs may offer fantastic starting pay, they shed quite a high proportion of their recruits within a few years.

I am a bit biased. My mum was a maths teacher and always moaned. Then when she retired she discovered she really missed both the staffroom and the class room. It’s a pity she had not been able to focus on the positives when she was working.

Yes, it's nice to hear how they're all doing. Mine is well past studenthood ... though still got offered an under 16 ticket somewhere we went while she was home for Xmas. She finds it funny rather than infuriating now though!

Happy New Year all - good to hear how everyone is doing. Looks like dd will be offered an NQ post with the firm she is training with which will give her a start - always tricky getting the first "proper" job. Good luck to all those job hunting or thinking of changing direction.

Good to hear everyone's news. The twins both qualified as solicitors today so we have been doing admin stuff like downloading the admission certificates today and one applied for his first practising certificate (and the other will tomorrow) and one applied to register as a member of the Law Society. As I probably said above. it feels like the end of an era for me as it is almost 40 years since child no. 1 came and we were supporting (vast sums on her full time childcare) and we have a family meal for 21 of us at a hotel on Sunday for all the now very large family.

The job hunting twin has applied for 4 jobs last week. we do not know how quickly or if at all people will reply but I think they were all advertised by the companies (all in house solicitor jobs) not an agency.

reads, well done to the daughter likely to get the NQ post. I was not kept on after my 2 year solicitor training contract in London which was unusual. However I went to a then top 3 law firm instead so that was very satisfying - I had 2 other job offers too so it actually ended up a good thing I was not kept on.

As for medicine, law, banking or something else who knows what will suit people. My sibling is a doctor as was my father and uncle. I have liked working as a lawyer as currently do 4 of my children (I suppose technically it is 3 of the children as one of the twins is job hunting for a solicitor job as of today). I certainly like working for myself and my doctor sibling is now retired from the NHS but continuing all the private and court work which is pretty much full time anyway which is what our father did when he was required to retire from the NHS at 63 in those days and from mental health tribunals and I think Bupa work at 70.

Law and banking can also be up or out and does not have the security of some jobs which is why I have always said working for myself since the 90s has been my most secure time of life weirdly even though I have to find and generate work all the time.

The twins had a teacher in their private school who had given up city law for teaching (and was not in favour of legal careers - I thought he should be neutral really not biased against law but it still did not thankfully put my two off,not that there is anything wrong with teaching - my mother was a teacher). I just want them to be happy and have an income that is what they want to cover whatever their needs or wants might be. My oldest son is also job hunting or actually after 10 years without a break has had a month not job hunting and just relaxing. I hope he finds something he likes.

Congratulations to them both, Xenia!

We've got the date at last to attend DDs graduation in April - its just the Cambridge 'fake MA' but as we didn't get to go to her proper MEng one in 2021 because of covid, we will put on some glad rags and do it properly.

Definitely the end of an era @Xenia !

I’m glad you will get to see your Dd graduate at last @ErrolTheDragon

My Dd has just done an exam to try to get on a speciality training programme (2nd attempt). She’s feeling a bit down about the whole thing. There is a shortage of doctors in that area but only 1/4 will be accepted. She loves being a doctor in spite of 13 hour shifts, unsocial hours etc. but this bottleneck is really disheartening. She has had great experience so far, gets positive feedback but no guarantee she will be able to progress her career in the UK

Most of her medic friends have emigrated already. She would rather stay & focus on her career but it’s getting a bit miserable now.

I think I have been supporting student DC's as long as you have @Xenia just one more year to go unless the youngest gets tempted by a PhD.
One of my DC's has medic friends who are at the pinch point in their careers. Not enough places in the specialist training schemes despite chronic shortages of medics in the areas they are looking for training. Going abroad isn't always the answer - Australia etc can prioritise their own citizens for higher training posts if DC went would have to go back to being post foundation despite several years experience.

Yes Dd does not plan to go to Australia because she wants to progress here right now. But if she can’t get on a training programme then she may decide to go for a year or two and then try again. Also will be a bit lonely when all her friends are gone. Not easy to make new friends at work if you are only getting 6-12 month contracts.

The student years can certainly be prolonged with medicine and law and some other careers too. My dctor uncle (and his wife) emigrated to Tasmania in 1970 where he then worked and they had a lovely life out there with a house plus a shack in the country and lots of animals (they couldn't have children); although he had heart problems so could not spend his retirement as he had hoped and then house prices rose in the Uk so they could not afford to retire back here. So those doctors moving to Australia do not always work out. My own doctor family nearly emigrated with us all to the Solomon Islands - we would certainly have had a very different life but he decided to stay in England.

My twins both have their admission certificates and practising certificates now so I think I have done my bit now; although I am happy to consulted by the one applying for jobs if he has any questions (although I don't really know what employers which in his case will be in house legal departments as that is his choice will want to read).

Both twins are thinking they might attend their admission ceremonies which would be nice. I went to mine back in the old days with my husband and one 1 year old who was so noisy she spent most of the ceremony climbing up and down the law society carpeted stairs (I think my parents might have enjoyed it a bit more but I was determined to have husband and baby there)

Thanks @Xenia - we are pleased she may well be self supporting at long last. It will also hopefully mean a decent pay rise as she has been on law society minimum rates.
I don't think the work of a parent is ever done but it will be nice to think we've got DD to the point where she's almost completely independent - and we can think about retiring

Congrats to your twins and to all the others who are embarking on proper careers/jobs and good luck to those job hunting

The medic job problem described by @Decorhate is both real, bizarre and getting worse. I don't know if the other medicmums saw this thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4957620-to-be-so-hurt-to-have-been-replaced-by-a-physicians-associate?page=19&reply=132033405

DD is really enjoying her F1, even if she is scheduled to work 80 hours next week. She is practical and work suits her better than being a student. However she is gloomy about her prospects post F2. With only a one in three chance of getting a speciality training place and a logjam of locums retrying, as well as Government incentives to replace locums with Physician Associates, locum jobs are drying up. There is every chance that in 18 months time she will be unemployed, despite the NHS having a huge shortage of doctors especially specialists. Even if not she will have to take work/training wherever she can get it. Otherwise her options are to leave medicine or to emigrate.

I had not realised how long it would be before she will be able to settle down. Training, if she can get it could be three years. Moving jobs, working long hours, having to rebuild a social life each time, and paying rent is soul destroying. More pay is not the solution. More important is for young doctors, who are putting in the work and delivering, being able to see a clear career path ahead of them.

She is currently in a low cost part of the country and so, though her salary is significantly lower than in England, she can afford to buy, which she will as having a base somewhere will give her some stability and provide a hedge against rising house prices. If need be she can rent it out. Also, because of the lower salaries where she is, there may be more opportunities in terms of work. If she does manage to get the training she wants, she can then return to London where they are crying out for Registrars and Consultants.

Congratulations to your young men @Xenia - I'm sure it will be satisfying to go to their admission ceremonies and complete the full circle of your legal family, and @ErrolTheDragon make the most of that graduation ceremony - I'm sure you deserve it almost as much as your dd!

I agree with the other medic mums that the whole system of doctor recruitment and retention is broken in the NHS. It's so depressing. I saw some relatives who are retired doctors this week and they were asking about why the junior doctors are striking. They'd just assumed (like most people) that the strikes are simply about money, but it's so much more about the junior docs feeling under-valued. They hadn't heard about Physicians Associates roles and were quite shocked. With the training bottle neck too I don't blame either of mine for planning to move overseas but I'm very sad that this seems to them to be a better option than staying in the NHS. Like your dd @Needmoresleep ds would like to buy a flat, but having no idea where he'll be living in 2 years time he doesn't feel it's wise at the moment.

@Needmoresleep I think it’s very rare to get on a training programme immediately post FY2 (or at least where Dd is).

Most of her friends have been doing locum work before moving to Oz/NZ. And you are right that there is not as much as there used to be.

The other option is to do a FY3 year (some call it a fellowship I think?). This is what dd has done - she managed to get a 6 month one (which has been extended to a full year) in a field she wanted (to get more experience) in a big London hospital so is happy with how this year is going. (In spite of 4 x 13 hour shifts this weekend…)

I’m not sure how widespread the issue with PAs is & how much of what I’m reading in the media is indicative of what’s really happening on the ground. One thing that does need sorting out quickly though is doctors being asked to sign off prescriptions etc for patients they have not seen because PAs are not allowed to do this. It’s a disaster waiting to happen.

Overall I feel like there is a lot going on that is rapidly undermining the NHS & doctors’ careers.

Congratulations @Xenia at getting the last 2 over the line .
@Decorhate I think your medic child is the same stage as mine, DS is locking whilst living at home
And off to Oz next October with loads of his Leeds classmates. We're trying not to worry about the future , he's an optimistic persona dn has decided just to get some experience and travel before applying for a training post. The bottleneck is ridiculous for higher testing with the shortage of doctors nationally it makes no sense at all. And the PA sticking plaster is a disaster waiting to happen

And @ErrolTheDragon enjoy the graduation you've all earned it !

Good luck to the young doctors. I am on holiday abroad with my just qualified lawyer twins and their brother as a kind of celebration - all going well. The twin who doesn't have a job yet had two interviews last week and one of those has already led to a second interview next week (the first 2 were for newly qualified solicitor jobs in London in-house and both were with HR either video or phone call for the first one), He is finding it good interview practice even if it does not lead to a job. One of my completes on house sale week which is very exciting too.

..one of my daughters...

I am not letting this thread die until the 2nd of the twins has a newly qualified solicitor job. He had a second interview today for one job and a week ago had a first interview by phone (but not heard back from that one) and has a first interview for one he wants tomorrow (the initial ones for these in house newly qualified solicitor jobs in London ) seem to be on Teams or a mobile call so HR can assess the person first.

The other twin is enjoying his job. In other news the gorgeous toddler grandchild moved house to closer to home on Friday (the chain was only 2 properties - the sale of the flat and purchase of the house) which is very exciting and we had a lovely time viewing the house at the weekend. Older son came away on holiday with the twins and me last week to the Caribbean to celebrate the twins' qualification as solicitors and he left for home today. So in a sense the new era has begun of almost independent children albeit with the twins still living at home.

Xenia, with luck we are coming to the end of the road at the same time. DS is having interviews on three continents in three weeks and hopefully one will come good. So a fleeting visit home which was nice. I hope DT2 lands one of the jobs he is being interviewed for.

One problem DD is facing is that because of the shift pattern time off is unpredictable and does not line up with leave her friends get. Late last year her leave request was refused so she could not go away with friends. Then six days off in January with nowhere to go, so her dad stepped up and they had four days of fast and furious skiing, which they both enjoyed. Then five nights and a weekend away with friends.

I hope the other medics are doing well. Even when she was very young DD would have to muck in at end of tenancies. The five year tenancy where no one had trimmed back anything in the garden so we spent the weekend hacking at thorny bushes, with a BBQ absorbed into the thick stem. Or the 3 Australian ‘professionals’ who turned out to be barmen and who effectively ran a hostel with mattresses on the floor and an attic full of stuff presumably stored for friends, and the delight of our eight year old when she discovered a vodka drinking game. “No you can’t take it in for show and tell.” So she will buy with a view to future BTL. She loves where she is and would be happy to stay. If not she can use the rent to pay off the mortgage, have reasons to visit, and will have some capital when she is finally able to settle. The next step is to find somewhere. (And happy to recommend my very good and free all-market mortgage broker who has conveniently just moved to a firm specialising in first time buyers.)