RG with Foundation Year or Ex-Poly for English?

[ladybeetle]

DC has offers for a foundation year leading on to a BA in English from a respectable RG, or straight BA from a neighbouring ex-poly.

Given the recent news, would you encourage your DC to have an additional year's cost to get an English degree from a RG? Or go with the shorter ex-poly?

Obviously I know other factors come into play eg which course/campus they prefer etc, but if it were on this alone WWYD?

RG, by a million miles.

A year’s investment which will reap benefits for the rest of her career.

Even after the recent news?

Degree grade matters more than university reputation www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4534380-degree-grade-matters-more-than-university-reputation

Which post-92 ("ex-poly")? They are not all the same.

Foundation years can be very frustrating, as in some cases you're essentially doing your A-Levels again, but there will be a lot more than Russell Group (which is not an indicator of supernatural powers, despite what Mumsnet believes) vs post-92 to this decision.

Why does he need the Foundation Year? You are not comparing like for like. Is a English degree or combined?

Nottingham or NTU.

He has been offered a place on the Nottingham BA, but he's thinking about which would be better for insurance.

Are those the only options?

Those are his preferred for insurance. He wants Nottingham, he's just now weighing up whether, in view of recent reports that said final grade was more important that institution, it's better to do 3 years at NTU than 4 at Nottingham?

Hopefully a moot point anyway if he gets what he needs for his first choice!

4 at Nottingham although Foundation years can be a bit basic.

Definitely he should fit is Nottingham degree with the foundation year. I would ignore that report because this is not a law degree - it's English! For more traditional, non-career specific subjects - eg. English, MFL, History etc - the reputation of the uni is the most important thing. I doubt anybody would take a place at NTU if they have a place at Nottingham! It's great that they're trying to widen access and opportunity through foundation years.

Why would he need a foundation year?

If he doesn't get the grades to get on the main BA, he will easily get the grades for the Foundation year or NTU, so could use one of them as his insurance.

I would look at the course content, teaching styles and consider if it's right for dc - if by 18 they haven't got the grade for a particular university, will an extra year get them to the required standards to thrive? Obviously if there was mitigating circumstances as to why a levels weren't that high, that's a different consideration again.

As this is university it really is down to dc, what do they think?

On the study mentioned about English was one of the subjects where there wasn't much difference between which university you went to. It was e.g. law and economics which had a bigger difference.

Do you get a loan for a foundation year? Would he be living at home? It can all add up to a lot

That's exactly it, he planned to use the foundation year as insurance, but he would have to take out an extra student loan to cover it, so he wondered whether a degree in English from Nottm is worth increasing his debt for, compared to a similar from NTU.

He's not concerned about the workload of the course, if everything goes to plan he should meet the grades for the normal BA course easily. It's just if he had a bad exam day he wants the reassurance that he could still go.

We're in a similar position. DS here could go to Bath Spa and stay at home, saving £££ in costs for accomodation. Be less in debt.

Or could go to Cardiff (possibly for a foundation year if didn't get on the 3 yr course) which would cost lots more in both accomodation and the additional year.

It's a tricky one and at the end of the day his decision. I have been told it doesn't matter as much where they do computing and wondering if the Bath Spa course may suit him better (it is coursework based, he gets extra time in exams) and smaller classes, possibly more support?

In the first instance I'd go visit them to get more of an idea..

To clarify his firm is UoN? He is thinking about either UoN with FY or NTU as his insurance? If that's the case don't bother with the FY - if he's firmed UoN and misses his grades UoN will almost certainly offer him a place on the FY version of the course rather than lose him. So it would be a waste to put the FY down as insurance - put NTU.

Sadly English is one of the degrees where return on investment is poor. So to improve employment prospects it must be Nottingham. Not NTU. See attached research from IFS.

The research also showed that RG and other competitive universities outweigh others for earnings. Subject matters a great deal.

Thank you all

Does he have any idea what he might want to do career-wise @ladybeetle? One of the reasons that an English degree offers a poor return on investment (though I'm not mad on that phrase) is that it isn't directly vocational and the sort of careers it typically leads to – teaching, journalism, communications, marketing etc – don't tend to be very well paid, at least in the early stages. But of course not everyone is motivated by money, so this may not bother him…

DH did an English degree (and works in a relevant field) but that was a few years ago! In general, a more traditional university will take a more traditional approach to English study but there are exceptions so it's worth looking really closely at both compulsory and optional modules.

I have a lot of respect for both @titchy and @TizerorFizz . For the reasons they cite, I agree that Nottingham FY is a likely better insurance choice.

But I wonder about @titchy ’s grounds for saying that if N is the first choice of your DS and he doesn’t make it, they will automatically offer him the FY. I did a long term as a Russell Gp admissions tutor in a STEM school. Amongst those we rejected for missing the offer, we probably would have liked to have offered the FY option about 70-80% of the time. But even when we wanted to, sometimes we could not as our Faculty FY was full. Nottingham or a particular Faculty could function differently. It might be a good idea to ask someone in the English admissions team about this. You might also be interested in the progression rate from FY to Year 1.

Asking them is a good idea I'd agree. I think you're in STEM though @poetryandwine where admitting extras could be problematic due to lab capacity? OP's ds is English - always easy to squeeze an extra few bodies into a Zoom lecture theatre!

@thing47
I apologise for introducing return on investment criteria but it’s very easy to look at what you like in school and forget about a job afterwards.

I do know some relatively recent English grads who have interesting jobs. However it has taken them a long time to get them and both in the entertainment industry. Even the Cambridge grad took ages to find a decent job. (And it wasn’t a 2:2 issue!).

I do realise that the decision has been made regarding course but I would also look to see how many places there are on the foundation year. A DC I know got on the Vet Science one because she didn’t have Chemistry A level. The A levels she did have were stellar though so she was hardly a risk. They had 6 places on the FY I think. So how many places on FY English and what are they looking for?

I would also have looked at more practical business type courses at NTU. These are very good. I think it’s always worth remembering you can read for pleasure all your life.

On the subject of foundation years, do they get another loan for this year please?

Yes