RG with Foundation Year or Ex-Poly for English?

[ladybeetle]

DC has offers for a foundation year leading on to a BA in English from a respectable RG, or straight BA from a neighbouring ex-poly.

Given the recent news, would you encourage your DC to have an additional year's cost to get an English degree from a RG? Or go with the shorter ex-poly?

Obviously I know other factors come into play eg which course/campus they prefer etc, but if it were on this alone WWYD?

OK thanks.

Just looking at foundation year online for Cardiff uni..

states it "is not meant to be a route for students who have failed to achieve the required grades in their A levels"

Might be different in other places perhaps?

Oh no need to apologise @TizerorFizz, I don't disagree with the point you were making at all. DH readily admits he studied English because he quite liked the idea of spending 3 years reading!

He got what he wanted (and to be fair, is ridiculously well read), but it took him about a decade post-graduation to get into what he really wanted to do, quite possibly as a consequence of not really having a plan or how to get there. Not everyone wants to wait that long 😂

I think NTU has a pretty decent reputation for more vocational courses – DD2 did her under-grad there and loved it but then slightly changed tack and went and did a much more high-flying academic Masters elsewhere – but for a straight English degree, I, or rather DH, would recommend Nottingham.

@Orangesandlemons77
Yes. That’s the point I’m making. You do have to read the criteria for a Foundation. It might be for nature students for example.

It’s obviously a bit late for OP, but NTU did very well for a business student I know.

If a young person is not meeting the grades to start a degree in a specific subject, so that they have to do an extra year, would that not indicate that it might be best to choose something else?

Unless there were some kind of specific circumstances such as missed education, mature student etc.

That's unusual (possibly different funding rules in Wales?) - most in England are certainly for those whose grades were lower.

Possibly. But the results of our FY students are the same as those who start at year 1 - as long as they pass the FY. Which would indicate that if the issues (whether poor teaching, time away from education, MH difficulties, laziness) that caused them to achieve lower than expected Level 3 quals, remain throughout the FY, they won't get anywhere. But where the student has overcome and dealt with those issues, the FY puts them level pegging with everyone else.

But yes, if they didn't bother doing any work and scraped 3 x D grades, unless they change their attitude it's a waste of time!

i see the DC has an offer for the foundation year.

I think Cardiff's preliminary years (not strictly foundation years) are intended for students with the wrong A-Levels (at high grades). For example, optometry requires two science A-Levels, while the preliminary year is for students with no more than one science, but the grade requirements are the same.

We've not had Polys for 30 years. Are people still snobby about this still?

@Walkingtheplank
Its really not snobbery. It’s looking at the best outcomes for students given the subjects they wish to study. Every bit of research you can find says RG (and other high tariff unis) are best for academic subjects. The Post 92 group are great for some courses but not all. Their heritage is vocational and they remain excellent at that.,If parents are paying thousands £ for maintenance and DC are taking out loans (which in future could last for 40 years) would you not think some care should be taken when choosing a university? It’s really not the case that all universities and degrees are equal. It’s reasonable to point this out to young people. Or maybe you really do think Oxford Brookes is the same as Oxford?

The flip side to the comment from @TizerorFizz just above is that RG unis do not necessarily provide the best vocational training. For example, mine is near a couple of Post 92s that have long provided excellent PGCE training. Our PGCE teaching placements are pretty poor in comparison and from what I understand the whole PGCE year is average at best. Yet the education research is very good. Different institutions have different strengths

Absolutely @poetryandwine .

As I said above, the vocational heritage of the Post 92 universities is very strong and these types of courses are often some of the best in their fields. However students need to understand the differences and make informed judgements.

Yes the post-1992 group of universities have, in a lot of cases, been quite smart about specialising in particular areas, primarily vocational. Oxford Brookes is actually a good example of this – its automotive engineering course is highly regarded by the motorsport industry, they have had some input into course content and as a result recruit heavily from Brookes direct into the motorsport industry so if you know that is something you want to get into, it's a very good course option.

This specialisation is praise-worthy imo, and should be encouraged. These universities could move more towards offering different qualifications such as HNDs and apprenticeships, combining study with work. We could even re-name them to distinguish them. We could call them 'Polytechnics' perhaps.

The issue came from those who considered Polytechnics as merely 'lesser' universities when really they should have been seen as offering, and focusing on, a slightly different approach. In some instances (though this is obviously a generalisation) the teaching is as good at the post-92 universities because that is their focus, they are concerned with teaching their students a skillset relevant to a future career; if you are studying, say, history, you don't need to be 'taught' it in quite the same way.

I'm not a uni snob but for English I'd say Nottingham.

Ds has chosen a conservatoire with Foundation Year for Music over and above a highly regarded ex poly full BA for similar reasons.

Absolutely this. Ds is doing Foundation Year because the entry requirements for full BA is Grade 8 keyboard. He only began playing age 14 so is still at Grade 7.

If however he had been playing since the age of 7 and was still only Grade 6 it would be different.

Some students are late blossomers and just need that extra year.

I think it really depends on the university and the role of the FY. As I said earlier, you would not expect to get on the Vet Sci one with low grades. Just the wrong subjects at high grades! I can see potential makes a lot of difference too. That’s difficult to judge in English when a DC has studied it from day 1 in school.

I do think we need to re-focus back to the broader education offered by the establishments formerly known as Polytechnics. There needs to be a serious look at the former educational establishments known as Colleges of Higher Education too. They absolutely should cover part time learning which complements work. Either for professional qualifications post degree or for those who use the part time courses to train on the job. I don’t think there was ever much wrong with this model. We have always had shortages in some areas of work but insisting on degrees isn’t the answer. I would like to see 100,000 18 year olds doing degree apprenticeships. Not 3500 as at present.