Autistic DD fixated on Cambridge

[MadamSighALot]

DD is adamant she wants to go to Cambridge. We've encouraged her but keep telling her that it's not guaranteed, that a lot of very capable students go elsewhere.

But I think she has this vision in her head of what it would be like - intense discussions with other people passionate about her subject, everyone very focussed on their work, and gowns and candles at Formals.

Whenever we look at other universities, they will talk about the social life, parties and getting drunk, and it just turns her straight off. I know that happens at Cambridge too, maybe their marketing is just more on her wavelength?

Any thoughts on other places she could consider? Mainstream subject, grades not an issue. She may well get into Cambridge but it would be nice to have a back up plan that she is happy with. We've looked at Nottingham, with their quiet halls, but saw a YouTube with some students talking about smuggling drinks in and that put her right off. Durham she doesn't like the idea that she would have to move out in the 2nd year. York she's slightly more amenable to, particularly their "boring" college, but it's not as formal as she'd like.

Thanks!

This is a tough one, but also intriguing. What is her subject? (Former Russell Group Admissions Tutor, STEM subject, and DH is a C alumnus)

Thanks @poetryandwine - Education (as social science, not teacher training). Or Liberal Arts with education/English/sociology elements. Predicted 2 A stars and an A.

Are Education and Liberal Arts mainstream subjects? I went to York back in the day when it was the top-rated university for my subject. It wasn’t formal at all in atmosphere, though there was a serious weekly tutorial (two students at a time) and seminar (groups of about 12) setup, alongside lectures.

Ah ok, most Universities seem to offer something along those lines so I thought they were fairly mainstream. Not English or Maths admittedly.

My Autistic son was determined to go to St Andrews and no where else (didn't want to go to a big city and wanted catered halls) so I sympathise. Luckily he got in.
St Andrews has some formal elements, old buildings, occasional gown wearing and meals with a top table in halls (but not every day). The four year degree allows you to study 3 subjects a year for first and second year so you can almost do a mix and match DIY liberal arts degree. Dont think they have an education degree though.

How about somewhere like St Andrew's or Durham? Both old and high ranking universities.

There is a drinking culture among students at every single university (Oxbridge included) but not all of them, obviously, and she doesn't have to participate, and she will get academic challenge at a university like St Andrew's or Durham. I don't know if they do gowns and formals though.

Perhaps she will get into Cambridge, though she needs a plan B that she feel positive about, of course.

Good luck to her.

(Not all students, I mean)

I was going to suggest St Andrews, purely on the grounds it suited my studious, introverted SIL very well. I'm not sure it's much easier to get into than Cambridge though.

I was at Lancaster, which is another campus university, and not particularly a party place. Probably not grand and formal enough though!

(My DD is autistic, though much younger, so I understand about the very fixed ideas!)

I would suggest Durham, Bristol and St Andrews. I think pretty well everywhere students leave halls in year 2 though some return in year 3 (there may be room for compromise given your DD's autism). All of these are top RG institutions, all have lovely vibes, all attract top class straight A students- good luck

Have you checked the university actually offers those subjects? Liberal Arts is not a subject I associate with UK universities at all. Neither Cambridge or York offer it, though both offer Education.

I have to admit, one of the things I did love about being at Cambridge was that pretty much everyone was a nerd in one way or another, and my social life revolved around cheese and wine evenings with the G&S society. I didn’t go out clubbing once, though there was a lot of drinking, including at formal hall.

I would think she’d find a similar crowd at St Andrews, Durham or York. Drinking is much less popular with young people these days anyway.

@Woollystockings yes, she's looking at Education at Cambridge or York, or Liberal Arts at Nottingham. Think Durham do both.

Thank you everyone, maybe we need a trip up to Durham to see. She's going to look at St Andrews but her initial feeling is that it's too far away.

Thank you

St Andrews doesn’t offer Liberal Arts, though Durham and Bristol do.
I think you need to check the subject is on offer before she gets fixated on the type of university.

DD is autistic and did Maths at Durham. They have a supportive college system and the pastoral care was beyond excellent.
DD suffers severe depression, and the uni counselling team were wonderful - as was her college tutor, who not only drove her to A and E in her own car after hours, but set up a discreet spy network of students to check whether DD was ok and turned up at meals, and phoned me to keep me informed.
I doubt that Cambridge could better that - indeed, I think they have had high suicide rates among their students.

Thanks, OP

As PPs have said there is a drinking culture everywhere including C, but it is lessening.

It sounds like your DD is seeking her tribe. I agree with most of the suggestions here. If she can see past the surface - and I appreciate that this may be complicated - I would add Warwick to the list. A highly selective campus Uni full of the most able students, lots of intellectually/culturally based societies, vibrant intellectual discussion. A happy vibe when I have visited. Shakespeare down the road! But no ancient halls of wisdom.

If it offers a relevant degree (and I am not at all sure of that), Bath is another hidden gem favoured by Oxbridge rejects, up the hill from one of the most atmospheric cities in Europe. Finally I would add Edinburgh because it is an excellent, very manageable uni in a beautiful, manageable city. But I am not sure if it is a bit too social? That is sn honest question, not a hint.

I know Exeter offers a suitable course but it's 60s style buildings and no gowns/formals that I'm aware of.

My DD studied at Cambridge and whilst her college has formal dinners, they are definitely not candle-lit. Some colleges don't even insist on gowns.

I certainly don't want to pee on your DD's parade, but how would she feel having applied to an older, very formal college, she was pooled to a more modern one without those traditions?

Perhaps it would be better to look towards a Masters at Cambridge and focus on her undergraduate degree first.

If you live anywhere near the east coast mainline, St Andrews is fairly accessible.

Would she be flexible enough to consider a year out if she didn’t get in first time and reapply the year after? Would she be able to find something to do for a year out?

I have a friend with a DS at Cambridge at the moment who said he hadn't had a single intellectual conversation in his first year (during lockdown so societies closed) and they all seemed to pride themselves on low brow culture. He is very nerdy and disappointed.

DS at Oxford has had a far geekier experience. But he's niche too, he had to seek out fellow boffins and got friend-dumped by people who wanted to party.

Other places worth looking at are definitely some of the London colleges: UCL, KIngs, LSE, Imperial all have a very strong geek quota ime. You have to find them through philosophical societies etc but they are there. And of course, London has its own non-uni intellectual clusters of talks and societies that a student based there could attend.

St Andrews is a good call. Warwick maybe?

Can you separate the “nice to have but superficial” Ie, formals, gowns, etc?
Any other decent uni she is likely to find serious people keen to talk about their subject.

Mine ASC child is in a really big city on a massive course and I felt a smaller city would be better for her. I also directed her to Liberal Arts, though they only had it at Leeds that I could see. However, she was quite determined to go. I work in HE so I know there is a heavy drinking culture but more so than ever space for quirky/neurodiverse types and it would be a case of her finding them and also giving her the confidence to be herself. So we had a bit of a gameplan, especially as she was going into accommodation where there was no choice in terms of selecting housemates and it was clear that they were drinking/clubbers!

So we agreed:
-She would join a couple of societies aligned to her special interests (always good for meeting like minded people)
-She would pick accommodation in the quieter part of the city, near the parks
-she would have a strategy for prinks -so she would have her own soft drinks to take but she would still go to them and we both know 3 drinks in, nobody cares what anyone else is doing and she could then slink off/leave if she wanted

She's had a couple of bumps as always happens at transitions but the social strategy has largely worked. The large city is better for gigs and theatre (some of her special interests) so she has loved that aspect. By going along to pubs and parties she met other people and there were a group who actually didn't want to drink or party (Gen Z drink and take drugs less than our generation!), she made friends in her societies as well and found a housemate for her second year.

Hope some of this helps in terms of understanding current HE culture.

@gingerhills

I have a friend with a DS at Cambridge at the moment who said he hadn't had a single intellectual conversation in his first year (during lockdown so societies closed) and they all seemed to pride themselves on low brow culture. He is very nerdy and disappointed.

DS at Oxford has had a far geekier experience. But he's niche too, he had to seek out fellow boffins and got friend-dumped by people who wanted to party.

Whereas for me (admittedly a decade ago now) I absolutely loved it - I spent all my time talking about politics and science and anything in between, up late with cups of tea or sometimes glasses of wine and absolutely viewed the constant intellectual challenge as a totally normal part of my college life.

I absolutely spent time drinking too ... But mainly at said candlelit dinners.

However, it was a pretty tough time as well and the workload was insane.

I'd definitely ask universities if there's any room for manoeuvre with halls if your daughter would rather stay in halls even has friends move out to a flat. I was extremely grateful I didn't have to rent anywhere privately especially as it all seems to happen less than a term in!

She probably needs to know that no matter her grades, no matter how stellar they are most applicants do not get in so a back up is a good idea.

one of my sons and one of my daughters weren in Wills Hall in Bristol which was built years ago by someone whose son did not get into Oxbridge so he wanted something that was like that - quad, nice buildings, a chapel on site etc. However most people are just in halls in year 1. Although I am originally from NE England my parents and uncle went to Durham 3 of my children choosing between Durham and Bristol picked Bristol as closer to here in London and were happy with that choice. None of my children tried Oxbridge as did not think they would get in.

Perhaps have Cambridge, Durham, Bristol on the list although it sounds like York is on her list. one of my lawyer daughters went to Nottingham and loved it but it is not an ancient college with gowns etc. I am not that keen on St Andrew or Edinburgh as I thin k you have to d a 4th year and it is in Scotland although one of my sons had Edinburgh as his back up had he not got into Bristol.