Autistic DD fixated on Cambridge

[MadamSighALot]

DD is adamant she wants to go to Cambridge. We've encouraged her but keep telling her that it's not guaranteed, that a lot of very capable students go elsewhere.

But I think she has this vision in her head of what it would be like - intense discussions with other people passionate about her subject, everyone very focussed on their work, and gowns and candles at Formals.

Whenever we look at other universities, they will talk about the social life, parties and getting drunk, and it just turns her straight off. I know that happens at Cambridge too, maybe their marketing is just more on her wavelength?

Any thoughts on other places she could consider? Mainstream subject, grades not an issue. She may well get into Cambridge but it would be nice to have a back up plan that she is happy with. We've looked at Nottingham, with their quiet halls, but saw a YouTube with some students talking about smuggling drinks in and that put her right off. Durham she doesn't like the idea that she would have to move out in the 2nd year. York she's slightly more amenable to, particularly their "boring" college, but it's not as formal as she'd like.

Thanks!

Durham's definitely worth a look. Some colleges are more formal than others - if she likes the gowns / candlelit dinner side of things then Castle/Hatfield would be more up her street than a Hill College. Some colleges have accommodation that you can stay in during 2nd year although moving out is a good experience and 'life preparation'.

St. Andrews is very similar, based on experiences of friends, so that's worth a look. My ASD brother enjoyed Southampton and found his niche there.

To be honest, if she's passionate about her subject, she'll find other people who are passionate. Finding a university with no party atmosphere at all is pretty impossible but as PP said there are plenty of non-drinking opportunities nowadays. My freshers' week had two activities a night, one 'party style' and one quieter/non-alcoholic option, e.g. a comedy night, board games evening etc.

Our autistic DC lived in the whole time at Durham -- even had first pick of suitable 'quiet' accommodation throughout. Talk to the universities about what they can do.

The suggestion from @gingerhills of UCL is brilliant: their Institute of Education is literally world leading and offers several outstanding UG degrees. Such a strong pocket of excellence is really worth considering for the intellectual passion your DD is looking for in her peers.

Imperial is superb in STEM and LSE in its own specialisms but I don’t know how strong they are in the DD’s areas of interest. Kings is a fine institution but in many subjects the entrance requirements are lower (though hardly low) and this will have a knock on effect for finding her tribe.

I agree that London offers many external opportunities, but will she take them?

PS - the PP who wondered how your DD would feel about being pooled to a more informal College had a very important point. As an Admissions Tutor I managed incoming transfers from several Oxbridge students and they had not all failed Y1. But I did mostly think they had impossible expectations of their universities. They would usually express that the Oxbridge experience did not live up to preconceptions not so unlike what your DD is expressing. (Some also perceive the robust nature of the tutorials as brutal but that doesn’t necessarily sound like a concern for her). Something to keep in mind

Liberal Arts isn't offered at Cambridge and Education is at a separate faculty near Homerton, not all colleges offer it. Sounds like an open day would be a good idea. Homerton is a modern college outside of the city centre so a very different feel to most of the uni (other city centre colleges do offer it but it's more rare).

Durham offer accommodation to disabled 2nd year students. I was offered the option to stay in college, but chose to move out, but some friends stayed in.

She may want to look at one of the smaller hill colleges (Johns, Chads).

As others have mentioned Durham has a very good pastoral system. As you are in college you have a college tutor who will keep an eye on you (so if you don’t attend lectures/hand things in they will come and find out why).

I study at Nottingham - it's a fantastic uni in many ways but certainly doesn't have the 'formal' vibe your DD seems to be looking for. In first year you can stay in halls on campus which do have formal black tie dinners, but they are infrequent and functioned primarily as a precursor to a club night. Like at Durham (and at many unis) she would almost certainly have to move out in second year.

I am quite a 'geeky' student by nature and have ended up with a similar group of friends, but by and large Notts is a sporty uni with a big drinking culture. However, it is certainly still possible to have a 'nerdy', sober lifestyle here and efforts are being made to incorporate that into wider uni life. Please feel free to PM me if you want any more info!

NRTFT : if your daughter wants to up her chances at Cambridge applying to a womens college would help her

Otherwise St Andrew’s. Durham used to reject Oxbridge applicants in my day (admittedly 20 years ago)

I noticed that University of Bristol offered alcohol-free halls of residence. I don't know if other universities do but sounds like she might find more like minded individuals there?

Nothing useful add but I hope your dd gets into Cambridge.

It sounds like your DD has a slightly rose-tinted view of Cambridge. I was an Oxford student and there was just as much drink, drugs, parties and nightclubbing as any other university, perhaps more so. Any university is what you make of it and there will be people on her wavelength wherever she goes. I'd suggest exploring some of the other options as she's setting her sights high. My sister went to York and that is a beautiful old city and would perhaps fulfil her aspirations. There's good advice about maximising her chances of a Cambridge place by by strategic with college choice, doing extra-curricular activities etc. Oxbridge isn't so much interested in the student you are (and your grades) but more the student you could be.

Hi OP, used to teach at CB in a humanities subject. My impression is that undergrad student body was still dominated by fairly smug ppl who tended to pretend that they didn't have to work much to get good grades. Wide-eyed seriousness about your subject is looked down upon by these types.

(Note that I anyway loathed the rarefied atmosphere; may have been oversensitive to some of it as not a Brit)

And no shortage of alcohol abuse; it would be a fool's errand looking for a uni where that doesn't happen. Does the institute of education in London take undergrads? Their library was impressive when I was working at U of L.

Yes, @ThreeLocusts, IoE offers a small number of UG degree programmes. They look very interesting.

Thanks everyone, she's looked again at Durham, and likes the Castle, and said St Andrews is definitely too far - so at least she's thinking about other options which is better! We've got (a little) time to work on it, so thank you for all of the suggestions.

And no shortage of alcohol abuse; it would be a fool's errand looking for a uni where that doesn't happen. I had friends who studied at CB about 20 years ago and the drug and clubbing culture was rife. Not sure if this has changed.

Has she actually been to Cambridge and seen what it is like?

Education at Homerton, a modern college outside the traditional centre will not feature anything by way of candlelit dinners or probably gowns.

If you visit the town, you may well see students wearing gowns but they are at graduation ceremonies.

Not everyone even goes to balls as they are really expensive, and populated by loud, posh and drunken people. Bit like university everywhere.

DH (who may well be ASD but I'm not about to diagnose my husband) said he found it really disappointing until he was postgrad - that thinned out the wasters and he finally did find the people who wanted to have intense conversations and sit in the library.

OK I asked DH who is also a sociologist.

His question is what does she want to do long term? Would she be better studying Sociology or Psychology as a first degree with a view to developing in to Education at Postgrad if she isn't going to be a teacher.

Is the course she is looking at in Cambridge supervision based - her + supervisor and maybe one or two other students discussing their work. On the surface it looks like a lot of fun talking with people really interested in your subject but it can be very intense and personal with nowhere to hide, and endless essay crises and deadlines.

If the supervision model may be too much, another university would probably be a better fit.

My eldest wanted to go to Cambridge for her undergrad but didn’t get a place so went elsewhere. She sounds very like your daughter but found that universities are large enough places that she could find other people similar to her anyway. She reapplied successfully to Cambridge to do an MPhil and has just completed her PhD there. I would say that she coped pretty well as an undergrad but is like a round peg in a round hole at Cambridge. Good luck to your daughter. It sounds like open days where she can meet some current students might help her select some back up options.

Is the course she is looking at in Cambridge supervision based - her + supervisor and maybe one or two other students discussing their work. On the surface it looks like a lot of fun talking with people really interested in your subject but it can be very intense and personal with nowhere to hide, and endless essay crises and deadlines.

That’s the system I was taught under at York. I vaguely thought it was standard across many universities. Perhaps not.

Not everywhere. It's the ultimate selling point of Oxbridge but other places may not do it at all/to the same degree.

Homerton college is right next to the Education Dept. It may look modern from Hills Rd, but it’s beautiful architecture and grounds once you step through the porters lodge. It has huge grounds (and they can walk in the grass)! and an orchard. It most certainly does have gowns and formal candlelit dinners (at least twice a week) in the Great Hall - even owls flying over their heads in some of them. All very Harry Potter! As a weird initiation, all freshers used to drink wine out of this same horn / tusk thing (can’t remember what animal it was from) - but that was more recently done away with due to health and safety! Now it’s in a display case in the bar instead .

Homerton College itself is old traditional buildings, but the accommodation is all modern and all single, standardised, en-suite rooms. They are guaranteed accommodation on site for all three years - all first years in one block; all second years in another and so on. Lovely views over the grounds which are very pretty. So no accommodation stress or needing to find people to share with in the second year. There is also a very modern-looking postgrad village to the back of the Homerton site.

Homerton these days is Cambridge’s largest and most diverse college. It is a bit out of town but not as far out as Girton or some of the accommodation other colleges may send you to in the second or third years. Also, there are buses every 5 mins from outside and, in this sense, it’s a similar time into town (5-7 mins) as it would be from colleges on the Robinson, Churchill side of town from which you would have to walk in as not on a main bus route.

The last sentence of the previous post is nonsense. The bus goes past Robinson College, I've been on it!

OP, would your DD consider Cambridge for a Masters?

Thank you for all of your responses. In reply to some questions, yes she's been to Cambridge with school and went to one of the older colleges. School are probably not helping, being quite pushy with the "this could be you" (we come from quite a deprived area) and not adding the "if you're really lucky, because most people that want to aren't able to"!

I think we really need to go to some other open days this summer.

@MadamSighALot

Thank you for all of your responses. In reply to some questions, yes she's been to Cambridge with school and went to one of the older colleges. School are probably not helping, being quite pushy with the "this could be you" (we come from quite a deprived area) and not adding the "if you're really lucky, because most people that want to aren't able to"!

I think we really need to go to some other open days this summer.

I think you should speak to the school then to understand admissions rates: your child’s school background/area might be taken into account

Also: not v PC to say, but there are vast differences in how hard it is to get into the different Oxford & Cambridge colleges, with the less desirable ones pretty easy to get into relatively (easier than eg desirable Durham colleges etc).

Some of the women’s colleges have fewer than 2 applicants per place, some colleges it’s 100 applicants per place

One thing to say: would your daughter actually be happy there? There is a lot of social and academic pressure, much more than in other universities (though equally perhaps more pastoral & financial support available )