Studying Art / Fine Art at university

[ArtyMom]

DS17 intends to do an Art Foundation course after his A-levels. That will be in London as we live there. Plenty of choice.

If he decides to go on and do further Art study after that, he's keen to go away (leave London) so at that point we'd be looking at art schools / universities outside of London and the SE. Wants to experience life in another city and as part of a big (varied) university.

I've noticed that some of the locations listed quite high the league tables for Art are post-'92 universities eg Bournemouth, Trinity St David Swansea. Is a degree from a subject-respected post '92 more, or less, prestigious, than one from a traditionally high-performing RG university like Newcastle, Edinburgh or Leeds?

If it helps, I think he'd be looking more in the direction of traditional painting and some academic art history modules, rather than somewhere that is going to encourage him to be wacky and very conceptual (as that's just not him).

Would be grateful for pointers. I don't know anything about the art world; he keeps asking my opinion and I just don't know what to say!!! His school is high performing but churns out mostly medics, lawyers and engineers; they're not so good at advising for Art!

Pre 92 you would have applied to a school of art, not a traditional university. Hence, most good art courses are offered by post 92 universities.

Wait till he starts his Art Foundation and he can discuss with the people there who'll have better advice to suit his needs

I agree he should do his foundation year and get more advice then. I also think looking at league tables for fine art degrees etc can be misleading/pointless.
All art schools in uk, apart from possibly private non degree giving ones, will be catering to a broad spectrum of art practises. Some schools, like the slade, have separate departments for painting, but it's still part of the same degree and he'd be expected to learn about sculpture etc and do crits with other artists. Also, fine art courses in uk are generally very self led- you aren't taught to paint in a traditional way, but you can teach yourself/develop own practise.
People I know who've wanted to be portrait painters have trained in Florence at some private art school. It's possible to become a very skilled painter through the uk system too. I think he should do his foundation and see what he wants to do! Personally I think committing to the very traditional portrait painter path so young would be premature.
After his fine art degree, he could do the drawing year at the princes drawing school.

That’s interesting. A friend of DDs left uni (French) and went to study fine art in Florence. Her art is now widely available through the family retail m/design company.
Other than that, I think the old established Art Schools (look at UAL, Glasgow etc) are still great places to start looking. I know there’s a great Art school at Brighton too. I would suggest seeing what the first term brings on the foundation course and then apply over Christmas holidays.

The portfolios take a lot of work! So getting started on that is vital.

Some universities offer joint Art and History of Art - Leeds and Reading are two that spring to mind.

Camberwell has Fine Art (Painting) and that includes History modules.

Edinburgh does Fine Art that combines History of Art and Fine Art. 5 year MA though.

Thank you. Some great tips here.
@Zazdar Pre 92 you would have applied to a school of art, not a traditional university. Hence, most good art courses are offered by post 92 universities - this makes a lot of sense. It's just hard when the school is pushing RG universities as the gold standard! But you're right.

The Slade is part of a Russell Group and Edinburgh is one of Scotland's top art schools- established art schools and good universities can be one and the same.

If your son is academic it does make sense to consider that type of course. It's also important to look at past degree shows online, see if there's anyone making the kind of work that he likes the look of- also look at who is teaching there.

Because some good uni art schools might not suit his tastes as much- eg there may be no painters and that may put him off.

Also he should think about what kind of artist he wants to be- doing commissions etc / a more commercial artist, part of a traditional fine art scene, or a painter in the contemporary art scene (there are figurative painters at White Cube for instance). Many artists end up doing MAs in London. It'll be too early for him to know what path he will take probably and it's also important just to think about where he'd like to live/be at university.

Look at Leeds it has a fantastic new department

If doesn’t really follow that the best art schools are post 92. They were incorporated into universities but not necessarily new ones.

@EachandEveryone

Look at Leeds it has a fantastic new department

Leeds Uni, or Leeds Arts Uni?

Leeds Arts Uni I know people who’s children have thrived there.

Hi, to answer one part of your question (snd I don't know what you mean by post or pre 92 but I didn't go to uni here); my daughter is thinking of animation after foundation and University of Hertfordshire is one of the best in the world according to Rookies, but the university as a whole is middling. I'd look at the particular course rather than the rep or ranking if the university- people in the industry will know what the good courses are.
As a matter of interest where is he thinking of doing foundation?

DD is doing her BFA at Oxford Uni (Ruskin) and as a PP said Edinburgh, Glasgow, UCL (Slade and St Martin's) all have art schools. It isn't just the ex polytechnics that offer BFA.
Camberwell and Goldsmiths seem to be the main foundation feeders in London for the best rated art courses.

Good luck to him DD is loving hers.

@ukborn

Knowing the background of the universities is what matters - to some extent. We have more elite Russell Group universities, 1960s universities and then those founded after 1992. Some of the art schools very much pre date this. Hertfordshire doesn’t. Look at RG and Post 92 lists and then you know what’s what.

For these courses, employment or ability to sell the art is what matters and many art students really struggle.

I knew a lot of people who did fine art. Most of them are art teachers now…….

Those who did design courses meanwhile are employed as designers

Sorry

Watching this with interest. D2 wants to do Fine Art/Art History and I think an art foundation year would be a good thing for her to do, ideally from home and then go on to university afterwards. She likes the look of the course at Manchester Met, and I've also seen there are courses at Leeds and Aberystwyth. She wouldn't consider London I don't think. The Oxford Fine Art degree looks like it has quite a bit of history in it so she might have a look at that too. D1 is at Oxford, but doesn't know anyone doing art.

@JulesJules - from what I have seen you really need to read the course descriptions as plenty of "Fine Art" degrees have a significant art history content, not just the ones which are fine art / art history.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I knew a lot of people who did fine art. Most of them are art teachers now…….

Those who did design courses meanwhile are employed as designers

Sorry

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow - I can think of worse jobs than being an art teacher!

When you say "design courses" - what kind of design are you referring to? Fashion design, Graphic Design, Product design, Set design .... something else?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow ''I knew a lot of people who did fine art. Most of them are art teachers now…….Those who did design courses meanwhile are employed as designers''

What's your point? I assume they did design course because they were interested in working in things like fashion, graphic and product design and so on. The OP's son is not interested in being a designer...

A lot of artist complement their art practice by teaching art as well. Some high profile artists also take on teaching roles: Tracey Emin is also a professor of drawing at the Royal Academy or Art and Grayson Perry is the University of the Arts London's Chancellor and taught at Central st Martins. If you are suggesting the people you know teach because they can't do anything else, it says more about your prejudices than anything else...

Also I know quite afew people that did fine art and have ended up creating sets for Star Wars or working in advertising agencies. It covers many things. My niece is studying it now at Camberwell and it is full on she is also doing an internship through them where she will be going to experience different work places for afew months at a time. She has loved the course so far and has met a very creative group of friends. Who knows what they could do in the future together?

If you are suggesting the people you know teach because they can't do anything else, it says more about your prejudices than anything else

I’m not being prejudiced. Very very few go on to be Tracey Emin. They may go into other jobs but if you want to be an artist you have to supplement your income in someway. And if you want to use your skills, then the thing that will pay you best is being an art teacher.

If you do design, your still using similar skills, but you are designing products and therefore are employable as people constantly buy products/ clothes/ cars/ furniture/ games/carpets/curtains/toasters etc.

I’m only saying what l know. I was a teacher. My background was design, l spent 10 years working as a designer and then made a choice to do something else. I could have stayed in design, l was freelance at that point and was working constantly. But l decided or made a choice

All the art teachers had done a degree in fine art, spent 2 or 3 years waitressing and then did teaching as there wasn’t anything else.

I was only offering my advice🤷🏼‍♀️

I think there is some truth in what @ArseInTheCoOpWindow is saying, however it does make sense that most art grads they know became art teachers when they're talking (it sounds like) about the cohort of people they met at teacher training college!

I know lots of fine art graduates. Several teach art at universities and are practising artists as well, so while not Tracey Emins do earn a living. A few are simply professional artists and earn a living selling work or through funded projects etc. I know someone with a fine art BA who went on to postgrad Art History and is now an art historian. Another who did an MA in product design after a Fine Art BA. Of course there are also people working in galleries, in art education, sales, curation, publishing. Just to say that there are lots of career paths onwards from a Fine Art degree which directly relate to the Fine Art degree, as well as teaching! Caveat is all these friends went to Russell Group type art schools, Edinburgh, the Ruskin, the Slade (and Glasgow). Of course there are also people who go on to unrelated careers, in marketing, opening own business or whatever.

Cyberworries, these were people l taught with!

It’s quite difficult to get design teachers, but l knew loads of fine art graduates l worked with who did teaching because they couldn’t do much else. Also we had lots of students. I was a teacher for 26 years.