Applying to American Universitites

[underneaththeash]

DS is a pretty good all rounder and although he's really interested in engineering isn't absolutely amazing at maths (although he's great at physics and computer science), he's also really good at history, geography and english. He's predicted 7,8,9 in everything apart from French.

Unfortunately he's utterly dire at any kind of language so IB is out of the question, (he will hopefully scrape a 4/5 with rote learning.)

I've been looking tonight at the possibility of him attending a US university, we've looked at some SAT questions and we have the money to fund a US education. I think it might suit him too, he can do a range of subjects in the first couple of years and then specialise.

Any advice experience? He's currently in year 11.

I thought US universities weren't using SATs any more. He can probably apply with A-Levels but he should contact a few universities to ask, in case he needs to do advanced placements (APs).

When he's in Sixth Form, there will be at least one or two parent evenings with a focus on applying to US universities.

Why are they an advantage over a uk university for Engineering? He doesn’t sound like he’s a stellar candidate for a needs blind scholarship so why bother? We have some of the best engineering courses here and our qualifications are recognised around the world. If you have £1/4 million for his education, buy him a property instead. Being ok at maths isn’t a great start and he will need an A in maths at A level to access the better MEng courses here. So work at the maths. The USA universities won’t overlook this as they require top grade mathematicians too. The IB is no advantage to engineers. Do maths, physics A levels plus one other. Add Further maths if he can but it’s not necessary.,

Hi, my DD2 and DD3 (I have quads) will be going to UPenn and Columbia this fall with full rides.

The best pieces of advice I can give you are:

1. open a College Board account (it is like MN but focused on US universities)

2. start thinking in which type of uni he would like live (big or small city, or in the countryside, inwhuch coast, etc.). Also think in the cost of living near to some cities, as the cost of living can be really exagerated for a student budget.

3. Extracurriculars. US unis want all-arounders, not just academic focused students. If he doesn't play a sport or instrument to a high level, start figuring out extracurricular activities from this summer onwards.

4. He needs to figure out why he wants to study at X or Y uni, and write it down on his essays. That is the most common essay promt.

5. know his ranking within his peers, for the entire year cohort and for his GCSE and A level subjects in the comming years

6. make a list of dream, reach and safety choices

7. ask those unis if they require SAT, or ACT, or AP's

I am open to any questions, just ask me

If he wants to come back to work in the UK as an engineer would the US course be accredited by the professional institutions here?

I’m not convinced by the value of going to the US for an undergraduate degree either. Maybe a masters.

If his maths are still an issue at A Level, he could apply for a foundation year here before starting his degree.

Thanks everyone. We definitely would not be eligible for any type of bursary, we would just pay.

I very much doubt that he'll get an A in maths at A level. He's good at the applied maths (so the physics type), but less good at pure. We do have a tutor. He "should" get an 8 at maths GCSE, but if he does get a 7, he can't take A level maths anyway.

I suppose the advantage could be that if he doesn't get a high enough A level maths grade, then it gives him a 2nd opportunity. SATS are also multiple choice and he's naturally very good at those.

He would have opportunities here. The USA doesn’t give more. It might even give more headaches over registration here and working here. Maths isn’t easier in the USA.,

His best bet is to look at Engineering degrees at former polytechnics here. Some may well be ok with a B in maths. That’s hardly someone who is a maths illiterate! Ignore lots of folk who only talk about Imperial College and Cambridge for Engineering. We have great courses for other students who are not quite so gifted. DH employs many from former Polys. They are often practical courses. So look at places like Portsmouth, Northumbria, Oxford Brookes etc and see what they offer.

It’s also good to try and work out what branch of engineering. Lots of young people and parents don’t have a clue. The Engineering Council has lots of info on branches of engineering. Then you can look at the different Institutions to see what each branch does in detail.

Some universities offer general engineering, but I would advise to swerve these courses. He could start on a BEng and then move to MEng if he’s good enough. His A levels won’t matter then. He’s proved himself at university. Young people register as student engineers with the relevant institution. They then look at the pathway to being incorporated or chartered engineers. Getting work really shouldn’t be an issue but a degree from the USA is not better and neither is a masters there either. The best route is to do either BEng or MEng here. Buy him a property instead!

Whilst the education to become an engineer may not differ much, the job prospects and pay are much higher in the US!

UK qualified engineers can work there. I think it very much depends what sort of Engineer you are talking about. Very many Chartered Engineers of medium levels of responsibility should be getting around £75,000 10 years after getting qualified. High achievers should get more. If you don’t want to be an engineer, go into finance and banking. Lots of engineers do.

My DH would not have earned more in the USA either. He’s done rather well here. But I think he might have been a bit special! He’s also run his own consultancy and only worked for others until he was 27. Chartered at 24. Got a good job with great conditions (overtime which paid a fortune), got experience, joined a one man band at 26. Got second chartered qualification at 28 just after the partnership was formed. They never looked back but running a consultancy or being chartered engineer X 2 by 28 is probably not possible these days. Running a business and being an engineer seems not to be a dream for many these days.

If you don’t want to be an engineer, go into finance and banking. Lots of engineers do.

That's a shrinking industry though. Technology is where the big money is made in the future. And the US (Silicon Valley) pays a lot for computer science and engineering graduates!

Yes but lots of people don’t necessarily want to go to the USA. They actually quite like it here. USA workers typically get 3 weeks holiday for example. It no doubt appeals to some and believe it or not, bankers bonuses are huge this year! It’s not remotely dying!

There are also huge variations in engineering disciplines. Silicon Valley is quite a narrow branch and the OP said DS wasn’t the best at maths. Therefore the advice to go to the USA and expect a job in Silicon Valley is somewhat wide of the mark. He might well make an ex poly course here but he needs to look at all forms of engineering and see what he likes when he has more knowledge about engineering. It’s also possible to be more entrepreneurial or even want to do environmental engineering. So my advice stands, look at all the options. DS will do best at what he likes.

@TheVanguardSix

When he's in Sixth Form, there will be at least one or two parent evenings with a focus on applying to US universities.

I don't think this happens in state schools. Certainly not in my experience. Maybe they focus on US universities in private education or very selective grammar schools? Your bog standard comprehensives tend to focus on getting as many students as they can into Russell Group universities.

know his ranking within his peers, for the entire year cohort and for his GCSE and A level subjects in the comming years

I don't think UK schools usually give out that information to their students.

I attended American universities (as an American) and if he is good in a lot of disciplines, and is actually quite good in physics and computer science, the US approach will give him time to combine interests. Physics or comp sci would be a great BS, and then he could minor in something else like History to balance it out. Or double major (BS and a BA) if he wishes. I dont think the math weakness is really THAT glaring an issue if hes good at the other two, and general courses in both will allow him to find his path to what he really wants to do as there are so many sub specialties in each field.

You may want to get to grips with how the US university systems are arranged. There are the big state universities, some of which are very well-ranked globally (Michigan, North Carolina, etc) but have tens of thousands of students (and the research opportunities funding and labs to match). There are the private schools like most of the Ivy League, MIT, USC, Stanford, CalTech, to name a few. Some states have more than one university system (U of California San Diego is different from San Diego State and University of San Diego, for example). And then there are the super niche liberal arts schools (Smith, Wellesley, etc) and the religion-focused (BYU, Oral Roberts, etc).

What sort of environment would he thrive in? Does he like to join activities and social groups? Like big time competitive sports? Want a smaller campus feel with more individual attention? East coast, west coast, middle? Some are near the beach, some are near ski resorts, some are on beautiful lakes, some are in cities.

A lot of American kids go on university tours in their second or third year of high school to check out specific campuses, and the schools usually pull out all the stops to make sure those visits are welcoming - dorm overnights, college games, sitting in on a lecture, visiting specific departments of interest, meeting other prospective applicants, etc. Could that be an option if you are still unsure?

There really is no harm in picking reach, assured, safety schools and putting in some applications, especially if he does well on multiple choice (although I would highly recommend getting and SAT specific study book because there are certain strategies you need to know to be able to top out your score). He could very well get some excellent offers from some excellent schools in some incredible environments for opportunity.

I'm sure he'd have a load of decent options in the US but you need to be conscious that for all the maths requirements can be lower than drop out rates from Engineering can be huge. Its referred to as 'pre-business for a reason. Likewise graduating in 4 years is a challenge. You should be confident your budget can cope with an additional year or two plus possible change of major.

MEng is 4 years here. But a lot cheaper for a uk student.,

Just a thought. You might want to consider some Canadian universities also.

DS and DIL did science undergrad degrees in Canada and then were accepted for PhDs at a prestigious UK university on very good scholarships. They did very well in their grad studies. They were told their undergrad degree was highly regarded for a number of reasons.

It can certainly be a path forward.

Have a look at McGill, Queen's, UBC, U of T. There are lots of others.

You ding need a doctorate to become a chartered engineer. You need a job that trains you for chartered status. Having said that, you just need a qualifying undergrad degree. MEng is best because the route to being a chartered engineer is shorter. The undergrad course must be recognised by the Engineering Council (in this country).

Do you even need 'chartered status' if working as a computer, electrical or software engineer?

From the salary information I’ve seen, chartered engineers earn more. Which is fair really. You expect a doctor to earn more then a nurse.

In my view we need to value engineering as an important professional career and it’s on a par with being a doctor or solicitor. You need the chartered status in most disciplines of engineering. It’s also use of the term “engineer” in the uk that means anyone mending a washing machine is an “engineer”. Maybe a software “engineer” doesn’t need a degree. I don’t know! Of course there are jobs in software but lots of people understand that qualifications puts our professional engineers on a par with high status German engineers or others. We really shouldn’t dumb down and think it doesn’t matter. Maybe it doesn’t with software but it does with civil and structural engineering because public safety is involved. You need to understand that engineering isn’t just about software and computers. It’s about designing safe buildings, roads, bridges, water engineering, and a whole lot of other things that really matter. You need to be chartered to oversee such projects and thereby earn more and get promotion.

I have colleagues who have just sent their children to uni of Chicago. Full paying. Wanted a breath of education. Another friend has girls with offers to Princeton. Again wanting a broader experience. Having lived in the US I would stress visiting the college open days to get a feel. A small private college in Maine will feel very different to an NYU experience. Had a roommate who went to Brown and loved it. Many will be populated with US citizens and he may prefer one that takes international students (at undergrad)

In my view we need to value engineering as an important professional career and it’s on a par with being a doctor or solicitor.

Who do you mean by "we"? I do regard engineering as one of the most valuable professional careers. A large part of my job is recruiting medical students and I make a point of not trying to persuade students who want to be engineers to consider medicine instead. Unfortunately, some schools do push students in this direction.

We really shouldn’t dumb down and think it doesn’t matter. Maybe it doesn’t with software but it does with civil and structural engineering because public safety is involved.

Given that the international banking system, global satellite systems, air traffic control, missile/defence systems, etc., all depend on software engineers, I think it very much does matter.

@TheVanguardSix

When he's in Sixth Form, there will be at least one or two parent evenings with a focus on applying to US universities.

Definitely not in our large 6th form college, they specifically said that they couldn't support uni applications to the US or other non UK places.

He could try a Scottish University, our longer degree courses allow for studying a range of subjects in the first two years, usually all science or all humanities but sometimes a mixture if timetables allow.
There is also the HND first then transfer to second year of degree option two of my DSs are doing this, one because he didn't manage a high enough maths pass at school and the other because he wants to study a specialist creative subject that wasn't available at his school.
I don't think doing an HND at an FE college is a particularly exciting student expedience compared to uni but it has an advantage in that it's a good test of interest in the subject that could allow change.