Applying to American Universitites

[underneaththeash]

DS is a pretty good all rounder and although he's really interested in engineering isn't absolutely amazing at maths (although he's great at physics and computer science), he's also really good at history, geography and english. He's predicted 7,8,9 in everything apart from French.

Unfortunately he's utterly dire at any kind of language so IB is out of the question, (he will hopefully scrape a 4/5 with rote learning.)

I've been looking tonight at the possibility of him attending a US university, we've looked at some SAT questions and we have the money to fund a US education. I think it might suit him too, he can do a range of subjects in the first couple of years and then specialise.

Any advice experience? He's currently in year 11.

@Frankl

Hi, my DD2 and DD3 (I have quads) will be going to UPenn and Columbia this fall with full rides.

The best pieces of advice I can give you are:

1. open a College Board account (it is like MN but focused on US universities)

2. start thinking in which type of uni he would like live (big or small city, or in the countryside, inwhuch coast, etc.). Also think in the cost of living near to some cities, as the cost of living can be really exagerated for a student budget.

3. Extracurriculars. US unis want all-arounders, not just academic focused students. If he doesn't play a sport or instrument to a high level, start figuring out extracurricular activities from this summer onwards.

4. He needs to figure out why he wants to study at X or Y uni, and write it down on his essays. That is the most common essay promt.

5. know his ranking within his peers, for the entire year cohort and for his GCSE and A level subjects in the comming years

6. make a list of dream, reach and safety choices

7. ask those unis if they require SAT, or ACT, or AP's

I am open to any questions, just ask me

Off topic, but I do hope your DD going to UPenn isn’t on the swim team!!

In my view we need to value engineering as an important professional career

Don't you think it is @TizerorFizz? Not my field at all, but personally I have huge respect for engineers, both for gaining an engineering degree, which always looks pretty hard work, and for the fact that they then get to do interesting and often important work. All my friends' DCs who did or are doing MEng degrees seem articulate and engaged…

It’s also use of the term “engineer” in the uk that means anyone mending a washing machine is an “engineer”

I find that very confusing that a washing machine repair person is an 'engineer'

In Germany you're only allowed to call yourself an engineer 'ingeniur' if you've completed a degree in engineering.

@thing47. @Blubells

The term “engineer” is not a protected title here. You simply don’t need a degree to be called an engineer. That’s why people often use the phrase “let’s call out an engineer” when a piece of equipment goes wrong. You will hear people frequently equate engineering to lower level technical training. The status of a chartered engineer or even incorporated engineer isn’t understood by many people. We know about James Dyson and Brunel but most people don’t know about the length of training it takes to be a chartered engineer or their value to society. They do, however know their solicitor or doctor will be who they say they are.

Yes. The degrees are hard and it’s good we have plenty to choose from. Young people do have great careers ahead of them if they choose engineering as a degree. However this doesn’t stop many many people thinking it’s all about software , mending machines or sorting your car out. I think the Engineering Council needs to press much harder to get engineers here the same status as German ones. The USA has professional engineers and they expect 8 years of training. As we do (more or less). So more than a solicitor. If we promoted the role of engineers a bit more, with status attached, we might not be so short of them! However shortages mean higher salaries.

@Wbeezer

He could try a Scottish University, our longer degree courses allow for studying a range of subjects in the first two years, usually all science or all humanities but sometimes a mixture if timetables allow. There is also the HND first then transfer to second year of degree option two of my DSs are doing this, one because he didn't manage a high enough maths pass at school and the other because he wants to study a specialist creative subject that wasn't available at his school. I don't think doing an HND at an FE college is a particularly exciting student expedience compared to uni but it has an advantage in that it's a good test of interest in the subject that could allow change.

Thank you - that's really useful.

For those who asked, he'll probably study electrical/software/systems engineering. I think he put electrical on his Arkwright application.

My Dad was a civil engineer. My niece is in her final year of engineering. She is very strong in math as well. My Dad had an interesting and fulfilling career in road and bridge design and construction.

It is a five year degree in Canada. Then a period of work experience and training (another year I think) for the designation of Professional Engineer. It is a challenging course and the degree is Bachelor of Applied Science.

He does need to be aware that most US unis will insist he takes some foreign language courses while there, and passes them in order to graduate, so he'll need to be careful where he applies.

Worth looking at the College Confidential forum.

India IIT is a better option than the USA. IIT Madras is particularly good for engineering. Cheaper, safer, and potentially better prospects than a non-Ivy League (IIT engineers usually get a job offer before they graduate - all of them are considered the MIT of Asia). But he will need to prep for entry.

It is important to check the foreign language requirement, because some colleges make it part of the core of courses that you must complete, but others have passing a foreign language proficiency test as a separate additional requirement without which you cannot graduate. The level is usually not very high, but if he's struggling at GCSE level, it's something to keep in mind.

@emmyren4

I'm wondering if his strength is in history, geography and english, he would be leaning towards engineering?

I think the advantage of the US system is that it would give him either 2 years if he goes in on an engineering-type track, or 4 if he goes liberal arts, to study a broader range of subjects than in the UK, and possibly discover that he want to go in a different direction altogether. The disadvantages are cost and the fact that, depending on what he wants to do ultimately, he might need a post-grad degree.

Oh, and if he's good at multiple choice tests (and is fast), the ACT might be a better fit than the SAT. I know a lot of US universities are no longer requiring the standardised testing, but IME, if you have a good test taker, a good score can add a little extra weight to the application.

I agree with @emmyren4, the flexibility is the big advantage at American universities as they don't need to pick their major right away so if their interests change, they don't necessarily need to start all over again. My DD (16) is interested in engineering, business and technology so she plans to apply to colleges with a strong STEM focus and figure out her major when she's there. She may end up doing engineering and then aply for an MBA, or she might go in a different direction.

Re SAT's/ACT's. It's true that some universities don't require them anymore, but it varies widely - and if he's a good test taker, he might be suited to one that does require them.

I suggest he does some practice tests to find out which format suits him best. My DD (16), who's also a good test-taker, strongly prefers the SAT for some reason and does v. well on it. DD has been advised to take the SAT three times and submit the best results with her applications.

@TheVanguardSix

When he's in Sixth Form, there will be at least one or two parent evenings with a focus on applying to US universities.

Does this happen? What sort of schools?

Would he consider something that is more economics and international relations? It need math skills but also history and english are perfect (analysis and essay writing)

I would look around for other courses in the UK that might fit him better before jumping to engineering in the US

I don't think it happens at bog standard state schools and 6th form colleges @Rummikub.

@LoveFall
The requirement in Canada and USA is 4 years training post undergrad. Not one.

Hi, @underneaththeash -

Sorry I am late to this thread because I do have something for you to think about. I am in STEM with my degrees from one of the better US unis on this thread and I have taught at 2 of the other highly selective ones mentioned. DH is in maths and has taught in America also. He is British and we eventually settled here.

Of relevance for your DS is the way Americans teach maths to CS, science and engineering students. In the U.K. each STEM School typically offers bespoke courses for its students. But in the US you will find that first, all engineers must complete two years of maths sat with a population of science, engineering and all but the top tier of maths students. (The A Level may exempt your DS from the first year, but not the second.) Then depending on specialism there may be further maths courses. DH remembers a specific Year 3-4 maths course at one of the selective unis on this thread largely populated by the EE students for whom it was a requirement.

A PP was on point when she called engineering a ‘pre-business’ major. Maths is used as a filter. As you said this is his problem subject and the system is so different to here, I thought it a consideration worth keeping in mind.

BTW I agree that neither the U.K. nor the US give engineers the professional respect I have seen in Germany, Italy and Eastern Europe. My father was a mechanical engineer. In those countries it is almost equivalent to being a doctor or lawyer.

I wish it was the same in the U.K.!

@Blubells makes a good point about Silicon Valley being a happening place. But it is extremely competitive!

@RampantIvy

I don't think it happens at bog standard state schools and 6th form colleges *@Rummikub*.

Yes I noticed other posters had commented too. Different world!

[quote TizerorFizz]@LoveFall
The requirement in Canada and USA is 4 years training post undergrad. Not one.[/quote]
Thank you, I stand corrected. I should have checked. I was thinking back to my Dad. I still have a copy of the report/paper he wrote so long ago as part of the requirements.

My dear Mum typed it for him, utilizing her experience as a "stenographer." They were living in bush camps as Dad was the engineer responsible for logging road construction in various places.

Please tell me you’re joking. Unless he is planning to like and work in India their graduates don’t get jobs abroad like you’re claiming he de why many of them apply for MBAs and other masters programs in the US, UK etc.

Whats the % of international students for each IIT India class?

Also getting admission will be tough as he will he will have to take the JEE exam and admissions approach in India is different and skews heavily towards exams scores compare to the UK or US which tries to take a more balanced view of the candidate.