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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Computer Science or Maths ?

72 replies

User11010866 · 18/01/2022 17:58

DC is good at maths and programming. Which subject will be a good choice between maths and CS. It seems that CS is very popular in US and Maths is popular in UK. DC doesn't have a clear favourite of the two.

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blasketmum · 01/02/2022 11:42

@OnTheBenchOfDoom- Congratulations on your sons A level results. My son has applied to Durham for computer science. Awaiting to hear back from them. Is your son enjoying the course and what is the workload like? Thanks!

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 01/02/2022 12:16

@blasketmum Durham are usually late to offer, speculation always is that they wait until the Oxbridge offers are done and they do not like being anyone's insurance choice. I believe they sometimes ask why they are your insurance and not first choice! They do love themselves.

There was a big cock up when Ds started that they had not been given the pre-reading maths so it was an uphill battle at first, some students complained about 3 weeks into the course when it was finally discovered that they hadn't uploaded the maths stuff. So it was a bit of a baptism by fire. But it all calmed down.

For the first term he had 23 hours of contact time, around 4 hours each day with a 6 hour day with a 1 hour break and a 5 hour day with a 2 hour and then a 1 hour break. But it is to be expected, it isn't a subject you read. He says it is full on but he loves it. He has 19 hours of contact this term.

Although he was home for 4 weeks over Christmas he was working for most of it on CS coursework so it certainly didn't feel like a holiday. He did take some whole days off but was revising for a maths test too. He is working at a 1st level so high achiever, very committed.

He absolutely loves Durham the place too. Small enough that you are not trekking for miles to get somewhere, easy enough to walk home after a night out. He has some friends there from sixth form but in different colleges who all moan that there is no McDonalds or KFC in town Grin but there are loads of other places to get food.

There is a Durham thread in Higher Education for any previous, current, prospective students, alumni and we are lucky that some staff post and some people who live in that beautiful city. Hope this all helps.

blasketmum · 01/02/2022 18:16

Thank you @OnTheBenchOfDoom for taking the time to write a detailed account. Great that your son enjoys the course ! My DS is also very passionate about computer science and has Durham as his first choice. Fingers crossed he receives an offer and soon!

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 01/02/2022 18:18

@blasketmum Good luck to your son. I really hope he gets an offer of a place.

User11010866 · 01/04/2022 10:27

Recently browsed the US higher ED forum, where it seems that CS is the only subject worth applying. Starting the TOP university graduates' salary could be $400K. UK and US, such a big difference Confused

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poetryandwine · 01/04/2022 16:27

OP,

With the greatest respect, someone very close to me is a well respected US based PhD computer scientist and I found this surprising. They are now experienced enough that their total compensation for a technical job is in this region (and their degrees are from top universities) but a newly minted BSc?

I then searched MIT graduate salaries because MIT is excellent in both CS and Maths. They list average starting salaries for their new graduates (BSc). Maths is first at around 120K, CS is second at over 118K

User11010866 · 14/06/2022 20:33

DC is still undecided about doing computing or music for his A-level and doesn't know what to study at the University, CS or mathematics. I checked a few universities, and none of them lists A-level Computer science as the essential A-level subject. Talk to the school teacher today and was suggested that it will be better to do CS a-level. Difficult choice.

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ErrolTheDragon · 14/06/2022 23:17

He might benefit from going to a few open days - my dd did a few immediately after GCSEs - so he can talk to people there and get more of a feel for what the courses might be like. He may also want to email some admissions tutors to see what they advise re music vs CS A levels.

poetryandwine · 15/06/2022 00:56

I agree with @ErrolTheDragon that contacting admissions tutors is the best way forward. However in general the reason the CS AL is not required is that in CS degree programmes, the CS itself is taught from scratch, and in a much more sophisticated manner than it is taught at AL.

An excellent maths background is the most important preparation one can bring to the degree level study of CS. For the most competitive programmes evidence of a passion for CS may be useful. Personally I would think of a facility with programming, an interest in mathematical logic, perhaps someone who has built a computer (if their interests lie in hardware), an EPQ, etc. These show more initiative than simply doing an AL. But my stint as an admissions tutor is over. Your DS needs advice from people on the scene at his most desired schools.

Namenic · 15/06/2022 03:14

DH did maths at oxbridge and found it a lot harder than school (though he didn’t get BMO). He thought that it gave him good skills. He has always programmed and now is in software.

one option might be to do CS instead of physics? Just a thought - but ask for advice from teachers about whether this is advisable.

i wouldn’t worry too much about being able to get a job (unless he wants to do something specific or research based) - if your DS has won coding competitions and continues to do a bit of coding for fun - I would think he could still get a good tech job (whether he does maths or CS). I am in software but don’t have a CS degree. Salaries in the US are higher for everything - look at lawyer and doctor salaries there. They have to pay for medical care etc.

Your DS does not sound v interested in researching the courses etc. What does he want to do as a job or what would he enjoy studying?

sendsummer · 15/06/2022 07:35

I just wonder if your DS actually does not want to close the door on music as a degree. If so he should do music A level. If he is just unsure as to which A level will be the most interesting or easier to get the higher grade for him- then I would guess CS with music as an external activity. However doing music A level would have the advantage of developing his writing and discursive skills.

User11010866 · 15/06/2022 09:05

@sendsummer @Namenic @ErrolTheDragon @poetryandwine Thank you all for the replies. We did some research and found that only Imperial put the CS to the recommended subjects for the CS course. DC would like to do a CS EPQ. Only after the talk yesterday with the tutor in the school and then talking to a student in IC ( who graduated and back to school for volunteering), did we realise that without CS A-level might be disadvantaged. We compared the CS syllabus of GCSE and A-level and found the topics are very similar. DC didn't like some of the topics in the GCSE CS like the impacts of digital technologies etc. He is a good programmer ( got to BIO 2 stage). DC has started to play music from a very young age and joins a music program outside school. Without the music A-level won't close the door on a music degree as DC will take G8 theory this Saturday. I will book to attend some open days. I wonder if it is too early.

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MikeSingsTheBlues · 15/06/2022 14:05

I would question whether CS is the right degree subject for him if he is not sure about the A level. Or rather, perhaps CS is worth doing at A level to test out whether he likes it. The A level may not be essential but it would help him gauge whether he wants to continue with it.

I suspect this is difficult for him because he'd rather do Music.

Has he considered a degree in Maths with Music?

sotired2 · 15/06/2022 14:10

As not all 6th forms offer Computer Science to do a CS degree you do not need to of done the Alevel. Maths is a big step up from GCSE and very dry even at Alevel. In all honesty in year 11 I would not be worrying about which degree course just pick Alevels which interested in and get good grades in. Guide him but let him pick it is him who has to study them. Again when looking at unis let him pick he has to live their top Unis dont suit everyone.

User11010866 · 15/06/2022 15:51

MikeSingsTheBlues · 15/06/2022 14:05

I would question whether CS is the right degree subject for him if he is not sure about the A level. Or rather, perhaps CS is worth doing at A level to test out whether he likes it. The A level may not be essential but it would help him gauge whether he wants to continue with it.

I suspect this is difficult for him because he'd rather do Music.

Has he considered a degree in Maths with Music?

Not many universities have courses for combining subjects. Imperial cooperates with RCM. Oxford might have a music combined course. That is what I can find. Even like music, I don't think DC want to be a music professional. DC was hesitating between CS and music for the fourth A-level before and chose music (planning to do a CS-based EPQ.) No big difference between the A-level and GCSE topics. Just don't want to repeat. Will continue to take on the challenges like Advent of code, BIO etc. in 6 forms no matter what to do.

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MikeSingsTheBlues · 15/06/2022 16:30

I can think of Edinburgh, Birmingham and Southampton off the top of my head so I didn't realise it was rare but never mind, it was just a thought.

AtiaoftheJulii · 15/06/2022 18:34

User11010866 · 14/06/2022 20:33

DC is still undecided about doing computing or music for his A-level and doesn't know what to study at the University, CS or mathematics. I checked a few universities, and none of them lists A-level Computer science as the essential A-level subject. Talk to the school teacher today and was suggested that it will be better to do CS a-level. Difficult choice.

He doesn’t need to know what degree he wants to do at this stage. Stop worrying about that for a year. He should do whichever A level keeps the most options open for anything he might like to do - if he loves music and thinks he might want to pursue it in some way, I’d say do Music as dropping it now could have a big future impact. Not doing CS A level closes the CS at Imperial door apparently? But no others - generally the vital A levels for Maths or CS are Maths and FM.

(Ds did maths, FM and CS A levels, dropped Physics A level. Has just finished a CS degree at Manchester - declined his offer from Cambridge because he hated it as a place. Loves MCR and is staying there, has a job lined up.)

AtiaoftheJulii · 15/06/2022 18:36

Not doing CS A level closes the CS at Imperial door apparently? - sorry, might close - recommended is obviously not the same as essential.

User11010866 · 15/06/2022 19:55

AtiaoftheJulii Thanks.

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sendsummer · 15/06/2022 21:28

Without the music A-level won't close the door on a music degree as DC will take G8 theory this Saturday.

Even with those technical music credentials he would be at a disadvantage for developing the essay writing level required for an academic music degree. Anyway good that he has made the choice now.

poetryandwine · 15/06/2022 21:54

OP,

Your DS sounds very highly able. Nonetheless, four ALs and an EPQ is a very high load. From an admissions perspective, quality trumps quantity every time. So three A stars is better than two A stars and two As, and both are better than one A star, three As and a good EPQ. That EPQ needs to be singular to offset the loss of a star.

That isn’t just my opinion. To the extent that one can discern the student has done their own work on the EPQ I tend to value it more than most admissions tutors. Without an EPQ I do probably subscribe to the common view. Where I’m going with this is to say that I wish you would get the views of some admissions tutors at your DC’s preferred schools on this very ambitious plan. He sounds able enough that I would hate to see him handicapped by an unrealistic workload. (Furthermore, if STEP is a possibility he will need to allow time to prepare for that.). Best wishes

User11010866 · 16/06/2022 10:05

@poetryandwine. Thanks. Your comments are always helpful.

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