Economics offers: take a gap year because so competitive?

[CaliforniaDrumming]

I am unfamiliar with the British uni system, so excuse any stupid questions. DS applied for Economics at Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Warwick and Notts. He has perfect grades at GCSE , predicted AAAA at A level, plus predicted A in Further Maths. Two rejections from Cambridge ( expected) and LSE. One offer from Notts which he is not keen on. He's very despondent because he thinks he may not make it into Warwick or UCL. I am not sure his PS was great because he missed out on work experience thanks to Covid.

I am wondering if it is extra competitive this year because of deferred entries due to Covid, and whether it will help him to take a gap year and reapply with achieved grades and more work experience. Also grade inflation due to Covid. I know it's premature as he has not yet been rejected by Warwick or UCL but would like to have a plan in the bag to reassure him. He has worked like a dog.

I might add that he is an international student.

From your name are you from the US? If so I hope he has written a British style personal statement rather than a US style one with loads of extra curricular stuff in.

They are making fewer UK offers thisnyear due to the A*/A being pegged at 35% rather than 20% in a normal year.

Work experience will not be needed for an economics degree but a discussion of thongs he has read relating to the subject and his views thereon would be.

If neither of the other offers are forthcoming then he can either see what is in clearing or as you suggest reapply with grades in hand.

I was an international student at one of those unis. I did a subject related to economics and had zero work experience. It's not needed.
What they want is engagement and a unique way of looking for things. My PS referenced books I had read and my opinion on them. I had also won a couple of competitions. Didn't have many extracurriculars. This was within the past 5 years.

I can look over his PS if you want ; if it's already strong however there isn't much point in reapplying. He should have a plan B ; maybe an exchange?

Also @SeasonFinale is right no extracurriculars necessary.
I didn't really have any. Apart from languages and music no leadership, club president blah2 anything of that sort.

No, I am not from the US. Bad user name!

He absolutely did write a British PS with lots of boring stuff he read and his views on it:) His teachers had a look at it too.

I don't know; it just seems terribly competitive this year. And maybe pure economics is oversubscribed?

Take the offer from Nottingham - they are good for Economics.

I agree that lack of work experience is not really an issue here. I would say that four out of five of his choices are extremely competitive & there are many students with top grades who are rejected every year from those unis.

Will he not consider any other unis at all?

It may be easier next year with achieved grades & hopefully things more back to normal so less pressure on places.

If you want LSE take a gap year (daughter is there this year) and work on personal statement. They are not interested in work experience but on additional reading and how it relates to informing thinking about subject

Thanks for all the comments. @TractorAndHeadphones that is a very kind offer. I wouldn't want to trouble you though.

I think neither of us realised how competitive it was! His more brilliant friends with great PS's have got rejections too. But reassuring to know that work ex is not important.

The reason he won't consider other unis is because as an international student and not a British citizen, he feels the only way to get a work visa in the UK would be to get top grades and go to a top uni. We might have to take Notts. I love the uni myself but he thinks he can do "better" because the offer is A*AB. I am sorry if I sound like a complete ass. This whole process is unfamiliar to us.

He doesn’t need top grades or a top uni. He can get a working visa for two years post study, after that I believe he could apply for a skilled worker visa;

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1006443/Graduate_Immigration_Route_guide__July_2021_.pdf

@Bratnews yes, we are aware of the new working visa provision, thank you. But he just wants to maximise his chances:)

I might add that the choice of unis was firmed with his teachers and they thought he had a good chance, but maybe this year is tough for various reasons.

@CaliforniaDrumming

Thanks for all the comments. *@TractorAndHeadphones* that is a very kind offer. I wouldn't want to trouble you though.

I think neither of us realised how competitive it was! His more brilliant friends with great PS's have got rejections too. But reassuring to know that work ex is not important.

The reason he won't consider other unis is because as an international student and not a British citizen, he feels the only way to get a work visa in the UK would be to get top grades and go to a top uni. We might have to take Notts. I love the uni myself but he thinks he can do "better" because the offer is A*AB. I am sorry if I sound like a complete ass. This whole process is unfamiliar to us.

OP it's not a reflection of your son's ability. Lower offers are rarely extended to international students. It's usually reserved for widening participation in the UK. Competition is global and the entire world applies for UK universities. If they only took the objective best the entire uni would be filled with international students.

Having gone through the process I can assure you that as long as it's an 'top uni' with a high proportion of international students (I won't say 'RG' because some like Bath are very good but not RG).
These unis know that we study in the UK for the opportunity to work here. Their career services are well-funded accordingly,
Unless he absolutely MUST work for an investment bank or in high finance (even then people do get in from other unis).

Go to career fairs, get internships, take part in activities and networking he will have no trouble. I know a lot of people (especially on MN) moan a lot about people graduating and not being able to find jobs but it's really not difficult if you how the process works.

Also to add with Brexit it's only going to get easier for students from non-EU countries.
Even in the days of limited working visas an unusually high proportion of international students managed to get jobs. When you pay c.20K a year for your education you want your money's worth

@CaliforniaDrumming

Is your ds state schooled or at an independent school ?

Might this be a factor in the rejections to date ?

There’s something going on with ucas this year. I think (not sure) , that normally you can change your selected unis for up to 14 days after submission. This year , I think you can change up to the deadline day even if you’ve had a rejection. So, might be worth your DC seeing if he can change one that he’s been rejected from, and substitute for another one he’d consider ?

Economics league table according to complete university guide: www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/rankings/economics

DS went to Nottingham and read Economics. Now on a highly rated graduate scheme with a very well known company.

And this was during lockdown. It is possible.

It's a super competitive course. If he isn't happy he can apply through clearing or with grades for 2023 next year.

I'm surprised at the 5 a levels, very unusual, that might have made the university's think his school is over predicting, gaming the system

Nottingham is very well-regarded, and a great student city.

I think deferring a year would be a good move. There is a "bubble" of extra students with top grades running through the system and that might be squeezing the offers. It could improve next year. Even if it doesn't he will have firm grades so will be able to apply much more straightforwardly which will take a lot of the uncertainty out. It will also give the Universities another year to get back to a more normal student experience.

I am sure he will get an offer from Warwick or UCL with such an amazing set of exam results. The timing of your son's entry will tell them he is applying to Oxbridge. So they could be waiting until most of the offers are made by Oxford/Cambridge (January) before they offer. That way they are more likely to get a speedy acceptance or rejection.

[quote keysonthetable]@CaliforniaDrumming

Is your ds state schooled or at an independent school ?

Might this be a factor in the rejections to date ?[/quote]
Not relevant for international students

Thanks so much again. I do realise this is a "first world" problem and people have bigger problems ( though I am not from the first world:)

@TractorAndHeadphones your post makes sense and is super comforting. We are non-EU.
@Franklin12 I love Notts myself. Such a beautiful campus university!
@DaftVader42 He does go to an indie. I do realise that makes a difference, though of course too complicated a subject for this thread.
@gogohm He has 4 A levels. I think I wrote that wrongly. Maths, Further Maths, Economics and Physics.

I do think he should defer- he is young for his uni anyway- but it will be his decision.

Economics at Cambridge, Warwick, LSE and UCL is always competitive. DS was applying eight years ago and it was the same then.

The advice he received was to apply to all four courses and be happy if he got one. In the end, and he was applying with 5 Alevels including 4xA* predictions, he got one…at the end of March and three rejections. If the offer had not come through he would have reapplied with achieved grades. One of his classmates did this and got Cambridge, though not LSE, second time round.

As to whether it is harder this year. Probably, in that there has been a lot of grade inflation. There are almost certainly fewer EU students, but my guess is that the number of international applicants will have risen. First because of the various problems around access to the US, and perhaps a sense that post Brexit, Britain will be more open to international markets and international labour.

So probably harder, but it was always hard.

It can be really difficult, especially for young people who have never faced rejection before.

.

Thanks @Needmoresleep your post is an eye-opener! I think we need to adjust our expectations, being new to the UK. I do think there are more international students. DS does know many who have got into LSE or Warwick for less maths-intensive courses like PPE. He did want a maths-intensive course though because that is his strength.

May I ask if people hire counsellors to help them prepare personal statements here in the UK? I know it's a thing in the US. We didn't want to go down that route to be honest. He wrote his PS entirely by himself, with a few tips from teachers.