What are the best A levels choices for university?

[Veronica25]

What subjects should DD choose for A levels>

I know it depends on what you are planning to study but DD has no idea yet, she is an all rounder. She enjoys and does very well at Maths, DT, Geography, Chemistry.

She doesn't enjoy Physics or Classical Civilisations but she is happy with all her other subjects.

@clary

"only one in 10 qualified applicants gets an offer" for STEM courses at RG? Really? Ds2 got offers from all the RG unis he applied for, as did most of his mates.

I don't think so. The application to offer ratio for Cambridge Nat sci is about 5:1, to give an example that's easy to check. (They have a fun interactive graph generator... ok, I may have a strange idea of fun)

Some other courses may, apparently paradoxically, have higher applicant to place ratios - but you have to factor in they will actually be making offers to many more applicants than they have places for because each applicant is applying to up to 5 unis, and they won't all end up as each applicant's first choice, and some will miss their grades.

Maths and further maths are recognised as distinct A Levels. Some subject combinations are designated by some courses as having 'significantly overlapping content' and students are not advised to take these combinations as part of a three A Level offer, but I have not seen maths and FM designated in this way.

There used to be an issue when able mathematicians often took GCSE and then A Level maths a year early, leaving a student doing maths, FM and another subject studying for only 2 A Levels in their final school year, as this did not demonstrate an ability to handle a high workload. It would have been an issue with any subject combination, but it was much less common for other subjects to be taken early in this way. Now it is not such a problem as there is a strong preference for seeing all A Levels taken at the same time, so we don't see as many students doing one A Level early, particularly when it is one of three, because it is very much to the disadvantage of the student.

When considering degrees with a high maths content, it is important to keep in mind that just because FM is not officially required, it does not mean that it will not be helpful to you in either gaining admission or doing the course.

There does seem to be a persistent perception that doing maths + FM is somehow almost... 'cheating' or something? It's a really common error. My niece (a truly lovely and very clever young woman doing medicine at Cambridge) was insistent that my DS wouldn't be allowed into Oxford with his A Level combo of maths, FM + physics (no fourth). He and several of his friends from school with the exact same A Level combos are all now at Oxford doing maths or maths combination subjects. If you want to do a highly numerate degree, three A-star predictions including maths + FM is not a problem for Oxford at least. DS also had offers from Bristol, Warwick, UCL and Lancaster.

Might be different story if you don't want to do a mathsy degree, I don't know.

@Oneliner

Maths, further maths and chemistry. Pretty much future proof.

Well no, it isn't

Taking a design based subjects opens up a world of creative options.
Taking math alongside means she has that fantastic overlap that so many lack which opens doors for all types of design engineering.

Does she love love chemistry?

How would she feel about math, environmental science and a creative subject?
Opens doors to maths, finance, economics, ecology based subjects, environmental science ( which has a ton of chem anyways), conservation/ecology ...tons of choice!!!

Just that it is usually taken as a 4th A level to increase chances of successful application to RG or Oxbridge uni since competition is much greater on the STEM courses. Only 1 in 10 qualified applicants get offers, so it’s a way to stand out and show you can handle the extra work of a top uni.

Even at Oxbridge competition is not greater for STEM - it's the other way round if anything.

Please stop spouting this sort of stuff - it's just wrong.

@Veronica25

I think the Engineering Design course you mentioned at Bristol would be interesting but I think physics, not chemistry, would open more doors in the engineering field. It is certainly the best subject for most types of engineering.

With geography and maths she could look at Environmental Science. Biology works well for this subject but Chemistry is obviously great too. Some very good universities really incorporate environmental science into other courses. Geography at Oxford for example. I would say though that Environment jobs tend to be lower paid than many other STEM degrees. Environmental engineering would pay better but she would possibly need an engineering route into that.

Product design can be quite difficult to pursue. The other degree she might consider is Architecture. Chemistry not helpful but physics would be. There is also Landscape Architecture and I think Chemistry, Geography and Maths would work for this. There is a great course at Sheffield university so take a look.

It's really tough isn't it. My DS is in his first year of A levels. He's a good all rounder too and is studying Maths, Economics and Spanish as well as the compulsory Welsh Bacc. Having come through Scottish Highers myself I think it's a shame that they're forced to narrow their choices so soon.

@massistar

I think Scotland can afford to be like that because of their 4 year degrees. It means students have longer to adjust to a single subject at university and go earlier I think in some cases?

The subjects your DS is taking keeps plenty of degree courses open though! The addition of Spanish opens up a large variety of joint honours. It’s also possible to do hobbies whilst studying. My daughters, between them, did lots of drama, dance and music as well as all sorts of other activities such as young enterprise and MUN. I know that academic subjects float people’s boats but young people can do so much outside the curriculum that actually broadens their education an D.C. wellbeing. It doesn’t diminish it.

and well-being….

Yes you're right @TizerorFizz . I was only 17 starting uni! Degree ended up being 5 years with my language year out.

So few kids have any idea at 16 what they want to do but at least there's a lot more info out there these days with the internet.

Totally agree on the extracurricular stuff too. DS is a qualified surf instructor and has lots of non academic experience.

I do honestly believe that doing more than academic study broadens education and life experience. I didn’t mention sport but that’s important too as well as volunteering.

I agree the original poster's later post "I think Maths, Chemistry and DT will be a good combination for her. I looked at the university of Bristol and she could probably do Design Engineering. DH is an Engineer and I am an an Accountant. She takes mores from DH. Thankfully she still has time to decide"

Not surprising as 3 of my lawyer children went to Bristol....... it is a lovely place.
Also Maths and Chemistry (or Maths and Physics or maths and geography) would be 2 of the traditional harder subjects which tends to be worth having on your cv which can be wise for some careers.

There is no such thing as "facilitating" subjects any more. Just the right subjects for the degree you want to take.

@RampantIvy

There is no such thing as "facilitating" subjects any more. Just the right subjects for the degree you want to take.

The term 'facilitating' has been dropped.

But the underlying concept is as alive as ever it was.

Yes. Just the right subjects.

@RampantIvy
Not exactly. Cambridge make it quite clear what subjects keep more options open and aid study at that university. Other subjects are degree specific. The list hasn’t changed. Just the description.

For DC who need assistance with subjects, the ones that keep doors open is vital information. Or you might think media studies, art and food technology A levels are the best prep for Law as often no subjects at all are specified. Better advice might include French, History and Maths.

@titchy

Just that it is usually taken as a 4th A level to increase chances of successful application to RG or Oxbridge uni since competition is much greater on the STEM courses. Only 1 in 10 qualified applicants get offers, so it’s a way to stand out and show you can handle the extra work of a top uni.

Even at Oxbridge competition is not greater for STEM - it's the other way round if anything.

Please stop spouting this sort of stuff - it's just wrong.

@titchy

I am tempted to let you stay blissfully ignorant and thus ruin your child’s chances at Oxbridge, but have decided to take the higher road and show you that I am not “spouting nonsense” but actual statistical fact.

STEM is in fact more competitive than Humanities at Oxbridge. All you have to do is read their admission statistics reports to see that. Their table 2.1 clearly shows that the courses with highest number of applicants per place is dominated by STEM courses and the average of them it is around 1 in 10, which Physics at lowest of 1 in 8 and Computer Science at highest with 1 in 16.
www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/AnnualAdmissionsStatisticalReport2021.pdf

As the OPs DC is considering computer science, if they do have aspirations for Oxbridge, then my comments are relevant. You need to be more than qualified with an A*AA and pass entry exams to get a place.

Table 2.1 in case you have trouble with the link.

Titchy is usually spot on with info in HE threads, I think that's about the first time I've seen something not completely accurate!

The most likely outcome for any oxbridge applicant is that they'll have three or four other offers from excellent universities and be going to one of those. Best not to get over-invested in it, either as an applicant or parent!

But probably irrelevant to this thread... I didn't see anything that indicated the OPs DD was particularly interested on oxbridge, nor computer science come to that.

@ErrolTheDragon
Oops, yes I confused this thread with another where the OP DC was considering computer science and asking a level or BTec.

But the Oxbridge thing came up on this thread because a poster said
“Maths, FM and Chemistry is future proof” or some such and I said not if you want to go to RG or Oxbridge (for anything other than pure maths degree). And it’s been back and forth since then on that topic.

[quote EmpressCixi]@ErrolTheDragon
Oops, yes I confused this thread with another where the OP DC was considering computer science and asking a level or BTec.

But the Oxbridge thing came up on this thread because a poster said
“Maths, FM and Chemistry is future proof” or some such and I said not if you want to go to RG or Oxbridge (for anything other than pure maths degree). And it’s been back and forth since then on that topic.[/quote]
There's no indication the OPs DD would be tempted by that combination anyway. And while I would agree it's a somewhat odd and unnecessarily limiting combo, I'm pretty sure an applicant with good predicted grade those subjects would be snapped up avidly by any chemistry department (maybe not Nat Sci). Some branches of chemistry are very mathsy! There's no a level combo which 'future proofs' the ability to follow all paths afterwards, but this would be very good for some. But, probably not the ones the OPs DD is interested in.

Thank you. It has been a learning process for me as I am not from the UK. If it wasn't for mumsnet I wouldn't know anything. I do know much more now and also the importance of choosing the correct A levels for University so hopefullly I can advice DD as she does not get much information from school. She didn't know the difference between A levels, BTEC, IB.

It is tricky. I tried to get more information from her about Physics and asked about other teachers she has had since year 7 and she said she never really liked physics. She was keen on Geography but now she said she is not sure; probably because she got some information from a school with type of jobs for each course and Geography didn't have many. They are very young to make decisions about their future career.

I am hoping Chemestry, Maths and DT will be enough to get a place in a good university for a good degree with good employability and that she enjoys. If she can do 4, maybe Further maths or Geography.

I think It is good to have a creative subject and not only academic. Will see what her preferences and grades will be next year when she has to choose. At the moment I am thinking she could either study Economics or Engineering at University but there is still time to decide on that. Just want to leave doors open choosing the right A levels.

Geography A level is a very well respected subject to have under your belt. It offers a lot of transferrable skills. Part of the course includes doing a non examined assessment (20% of the final marks come from this), which is really like a mini dissertation. It involves conducting some research, presenting data and writing a report. DD's was about 6,000 words.

A lot of people have said that it is similar to doing an EPQ and the experience of doing her NEA was useful for when she started university.

I am hoping Chemestry, Maths and DT will be enough to get a place in a good university for a good degree with good employability and that she enjoys

Please do remember that ultimately it is your DDs choice, not yours. Also, if she is only Y10 at the moment, a lot can change in a year. Another issue that may have some impact is where she wishes to take her A levels, and what choices that place may offer. Many children like to move from where they have done GSCEs for A level study.