What are the best A levels choices for university?

[Veronica25]

What subjects should DD choose for A levels>

I know it depends on what you are planning to study but DD has no idea yet, she is an all rounder. She enjoys and does very well at Maths, DT, Geography, Chemistry.

She doesn't enjoy Physics or Classical Civilisations but she is happy with all her other subjects.

@Megan1992xx

A somewhat tangential point but I would hate to hear that a girl considering A level choices would be steered from STEM subjects into studying Geography, Business etc because she happened to 'enjoy' the non stem subject at GCSE. I suspect it happens all the time, they even tried it on me, no wonder we have an unequal society!

Most people involved in education strongly advise that pupils should study the A level subjects which they enjoy the most as this is more likely to result in good grades. Do you have any particular reason for disagreeing with this approach?

Totally agree we should be encouraging more women into STEM subjects, but only if that's what interests them.

Anyway as regards OP's DD, a combination of maths, chemistry and geography would be a STEM-oriented choice which nevertheless leaves a wide range of options open to her. Sounds ideal.

Based on their limited experience of the subject they studied at GCSE yes I have a real problem with teachers advising students to do the subject they 'enjoy' It is a lazy and life destroying approach effectively it restricts the choice to subject to one they have already studied.
The best advice is to do the A levels that offer the greatest opportunity to pursue the career they want and the jobs that are most rewarding.

Ah well, yes, I agree with you there. And if you know what you want to do in the future, then your advice is spot on. But what if your 16-year-old doesn't have a clue what career they want to pursue or what job they might find most rewarding – surely this depends on what you value: money, status, doing good, personal satisfaction, travel…

ErrollTheDragon. Yes you're right although I'd still be asking why someone had chosen a particular pathway if the subjects involved weren't their favourites.

@thing47

Ah well, yes, I agree with you there. And if you know what you want to do in the future, then your advice is spot on. But what if your 16-year-old doesn't have a clue what career they want to pursue or what job they might find most rewarding – surely this depends on what you value: money, status, doing good, personal satisfaction, travel…

'Most people involved in education strongly advise that pupils should study the A level subjects which they enjoy the most as this is more likely to result in good grades. Do you have any particular reason for disagreeing with this approach?' @thing47 I agree 'most people involved in education' do take that view. This is just an example of the piss poor advice that teachers who have simply swapped educational institution for educational institution are likely to give. Expecting sensible advice from such individuals is like asking a butcher about your toe operation. Parents need to intervene and ask that someone who may be a teacher but who has had a broader career experience gives advice. Parents are often far too supine in this type of decision and simply go along with the advice offered.

@gogohm

Btw geography gets a lot of stick - it's nickname is a level colouring in! But it's actually a pretty good all around subject, one of mine got an a* in geography and is in the navy now

Many anecdotal stories about the benefits of Geography this link provides an overview of the salaries expected by degree. I would rather earn £30000 a year having done Chemical Engineering than £24000 having done Geography www.savethestudent.org/student-jobs/whats-the-expected-salary-for-your-degree.html#life

I was looking at university of Bath and they require Maths and Further Maths for Economics.

I think I will leave DD to do the research, it is all a bit complicated without knowing what she wants to study. I really hope she has it more clear next year when she has to choose. Maybe she has to do the IB after all.

Sorry that was for Economics and Maths. Economics only requires A level maths only and 2 other subjects. Phew

I would rather earn £30000 a year having done Chemical Engineering than £24000 having done Geography

Well that's you. I'd rather earn £24k a year doing something I love than £30k a year doing something I loathe.

As long as kids are making informed decisions they shouldn't be persuaded that Geo-bad, Chem-good, or coerced into STEM to address sex inequalities.

That's starting salaries, though Megan so it doesn't tell you anything about progression.

For example, the starting salary for a newly qualified teacher looks pretty decent, but I should imagine it's much harder to jump up exponentially than it is in, say, banking or finance, or law. Sure, a big starting salary is nice but career-wise playing the long game is probably a better bet.

Again, no one here in any of the professions mentioned above so no vested interest, just trying to be objective.

I would rather earn £30000 a year having done Chemical Engineering than £24000 having done Geography

That pairing prompts me to point out that some vague consideration of 'quality of life' aspects to a career beyond salary may be worthwhile. Some careers may be hard to do outside of London or big cities. Chem eng may mean you have to live in or near specific industrialised areas. Some of the 'professions' may allow living in any part of the country you prefer.

She likes Biology too but discarded it as she said she doesn't want to go into medicine or any of the health related careers

Neither does my DS but he's applying for biology. Lots of modules such as evolution, plant biology, conservation, animal behaviour, zoology, marine biology on many courses to choose from. Having done some reading around it looks like biophysics may be a growth area.

"Why would you go to do a Geography degree and waste all that money if you can go straight to do CIMA, ACCA, ACA, without having a university degree and go straight into employment? Honest question, just want to understand a bit more about it"

Well - there is lots of discussion about whether its better to do a general degree then go into accountancy (should that be the career path you are looking at) or go straight into an apprenticeship. I don't think there is an overriding case to be made either way.

Perhaps pro degree:

• you don't need to enter the workplace at 18 - great for some, intimidating for others. Some that wouldn't get into an apprenticeship at 18 will have matured and be great candidates at 21

• education can be its own virtue, plus you have fun and meet lots of your peers at university. Perhaps gain some leadership skills, a broader view of the world and lots of friends.

• no-one is certain whether employers will filter by/ expect their professional accounting staff to be graduates. Certainly getting visas to work abroad can be more complicated without an undergrad degree as a minimum

• maybe the skills gained on a degree or holding the credential help you into better paying positions. It doesnt take a huge leap in salary to offset paying the 9% tax on an element of income.

@Megan1992xx The best advice is to do the A levels that offer the greatest opportunity to pursue the career they want

Assumes at sixteen they have an idea of a preferred career. Yr13 Still doesn't and I didn't either 30 year ago.

Thanks. I agree that an university degree offers lots of other opportunities and experiences which are not always related to work and employability, as long as you can afford it, as it is expensive in the UK.

Thank you for all the advice it has been very helpful. I had another chat with her and she said that she likes the design part of DT, also the calculations. It has always been her strongest subject and I think the ones she will enjoy the most. I have always seen her doing something a bit more creative. I also looked at some university courses.

I think Maths, Chemistry and DT will be a good combination for her. I looked at the university of Bristol and she could probably do Design Engineering. DH is an Engineer and I am an an Accountant. She takes mores from DH. Thankfully she still has time to decide.

@mnp321

Sorry but a Geography Degree is not likely to lead to a well paid profession most likely you will end teaching Geography!

As a geography graduate, I feel I have to defend my subject slightly....! It took me into a grad job in a big four firm, followed by a highly paid job in investment banking. I'd say geography graduates were well represented amongst my peers.

The recruiters at most of the firms we applied for were far more interested in the reputation of the Uni and our motivation to work in that area, than the degree subject itself. Perhaps economics graduates have a slight edge for financial services firms. Nothing wrong with teaching but none of my fellow geography students are teachers, most work in legal and professional service firms.

Agree...ds graduated this summer with BSc Geography and Environmental Science ( not even RG Uni!- but Scottish) and has secured place on Barclays graduate scheme ( data analyst sector) with a starting salary of £40k( &£5 startup bonus) think this is maybe slightly more than a teacher

@Oneliner

Maths, further maths and chemistry. Pretty much future proof.

Only if you have no aspirations for Oxbridge or Russell Group in your future. If you do want a top uni, then they should only take FM as a 4th A level. It’s looked down on to only take Maths, FM + one other. You can either do Maths +2 (neither of which are FM) or take Maths, FM +2 others.

Only if you have no aspirations for Oxbridge or Russell Group in your future. If you do want a top uni, then they should only take FM as a 4th A level. It’s looked down on to only take Maths, FM + one other. You can either do Maths +2 (neither of which are FM) or take Maths, FM +2 others.

That's inaccurate. My dd did maths, fm and physics. Offers from all 5 of her RG choices, including Cambridge. She would not have got an offer at the latter without the FM.

It may be true for medicine that 3 inc fm isn't broad enough, but in general for stem degrees 3 inc FM is fine.
Check the course requirements, and if in doubt the DCs should email admissions tutors for a few courses they may be interested in to check.

@EmpressCixi is that actually so? Mate of Ds's is at a top uni studying maths with maths, FM and PE A levels. I have made a cursory search of a couple of RG unis and can't see that FM is discounted as an A level.

It's academic for a lot of students I guess as many schools still insist on four A levels if one is FM but in DS2's year at his school a couple of students did maths, FM and one other and have gone to uni.

It's one of the common fallacies which regularly get trotted out on HE threads, clary.

I'd certainly agree it's better in general to at least start 4 if they include FM, in case the step up from gcse maths turns out to be too much, but the idea that FM is 'looked down on' rather than valued (very much so for some subjects) is simply wrong.

Anyway, probably of no relevance whatever to the OPs DD, sorry for the diversion.

[quote clary]@EmpressCixi is that actually so? Mate of Ds's is at a top uni studying maths with maths, FM and PE A levels. I have made a cursory search of a couple of RG unis and can't see that FM is discounted as an A level.

It's academic for a lot of students I guess as many schools still insist on four A levels if one is FM but in DS2's year at his school a couple of students did maths, FM and one other and have gone to uni.[/quote]
I don’t mean to imply that FM is discounted as an A level, it is definitely one. Just that it is usually taken as a 4th A level to increase chances of successful application to RG or Oxbridge uni since competition is much greater on the STEM courses. Only 1 in 10 qualified applicants get offers, so it’s a way to stand out and show you can handle the extra work of a top uni.

It’s what my DCs sixth form advises. And it’s one of these sixth forms:
theworldnews.net/uk-news/revealed-the-best-state-schools-for-getting-a-place-at-oxbridge

So I trust them. Out of interest at which top uni is the mate studying a maths degree?

Bath, so not RG (I am a bit hmm about RG anyway - many very good unis not in it and it mainly stands for research as far as I can see). Good for maths tho I would say.

"only one in 10 qualified applicants gets an offer" for STEM courses at RG? Really? Ds2 got offers from all the RG unis he applied for, as did most of his mates.

@clary

"only one in 10 qualified applicants gets an offer" for STEM courses at RG? Really? Ds2 got offers from all the RG unis he applied for, as did most of his mates.

Sorry that was re Oxbridge only.