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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Best unis for Engineering?

164 replies

printmeanicephoto · 01/11/2021 22:32

Hi - my son has applied to Cambridge for Engineering as his first choice for 2022 entry, but as his chances of getting in are slim (1 in 7 approx I believe), he's exploring other options (General Eng or Mechanical Eng).

As he's a quiet lad who prefers not to be in the middle of busy action, he's not too keen on the idea of the obvious London choices (Imperial, UCL etc). He's a keen road cyclist and runner so access to green spaces and countryside whilst studying will be important to him (as will be applying to good unis with reputable engineering departments with good links to industry). We live in the north of England, but are also considering looking uk wide.

Anyone got any Engineering insights as to which unis may suit? We're trying to draw up a shortlist of a couple to visit before Christmas but are failing to move forward much on this. Any help much appreciated!

Thanks!

OP posts:
catshavestaff · 02/11/2021 22:09

Southampton and Cambridge both do formula student

readsalotgirl63 · 02/11/2021 22:10

Yes - great to watch on the YouTube channel. More exciting than F1

Parker231 · 02/11/2021 22:12

DS has just finished his Masters at Warwick. He loved his four years there. Now working in the Netherlands.

Winestopsthewhine · 02/11/2021 22:24

@Gastonia

It is crazy to make five applications to places with the same entry requirements. Each to their own. Perhaps they were applying after A-levels. Also, I feel grades are more predictable for sciences - feel free to disagree Smile - so maybe they felt no need to have an insurance. Perhaps Bristol required lower grades, so was the insurance.
I didn't know that they had the same entry requirements. But he was predicted 4 X A* and, although he didn't get that quite, he did exceed his offer by a couple of grades. Actually I did know that his top 2 asked for the same grades because he used the one as his insurance that has historically been slightly more lenient on results day.
Sewaccidentprone · 02/11/2021 22:26

Ds2 is currently doing engineering at Uni.

He only considered Russell Group Uni’s, and had interviews and offers from quite a few.

He thought that Manchester was too big and dirty(?), York not big enough Engineering dept, etc, Sheffield too close…..

He also didn’t want London or anywhere south of there, but wanted somewhere with a nice feel to it etc.

Obviously lockdown last year was a really crap 1st year as there were only 2 lab sessions all year, the rest was online.

But he seems so much happier and settled now in his 2nd year with a mix of types of teaching, plus lab work etc.

I think visit a few cities, see what they feel like, do some research around options etc. Believe course content between them is very similar.

Everyone has different requirements etc, so it’s a matter of finding a good fit. And obs what the offers are!

VorpalSword · 03/11/2021 19:52

Russell group unis being better than the others is just a myth. They are a group of unis that formed a club as a lobby group to the government. They then went on to promote themselves as the top universities. They are all good, but there are lots of Non Russell group that are just as good.

Bath, St Andrews, Strathclyde and Loughborough aren’t Russell Group and shouldn’t be discounted because of this. All very good universities for Engineering.

TizerorFizz · 03/11/2021 23:02

Yes but RG are the majority of the better universities. However there are great universities that are not RG or are firmer polys who are very good at branches of engineering. Within RG some are better than others. However any grad with the right skills will do well.

MarchingFrogs · 04/11/2021 08:06

Were they to be setting up today, they'd be the Kimpton Fitzroy London Group.

Or do you think they would have chosen a different hotel for their meetings?

ErrolTheDragon · 04/11/2021 08:47

Grin the Novotel 17 ...er 24?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RussellGroup#'Elite''statusquestioned

The 'tiers' mentioned in this section are presumably subject to change, with some newer universities rising and some older ones falling over time.
And for engineering, there always were polys doing good solid training.

I think the RG bias perhaps applies more for fields where the content of the degree isn't that important to the employer/professional training. And even there when we see eg lists of good unis for would-be lawyers it's a subsection with maybe a non RG or two thrown in.

TizerorFizz · 04/11/2021 13:29

Hmm. Not really. Top 19 are all RG. Oxbridge leads for London and Manchester for regional. This is from Chambers student. Other universities get into the list when older students transfer to law .

Sorry to divert the conversation - but for engineering there is a very different recruitment process. There are shortages of engineers. Not lawyers. Getting a law job is hugely competitive. Getting an engineering job, other then at the top firms, isn’t that difficult! Also engineers compete against engineers. Lawyers compete with classicists, historians, linguists and even music degree holders for coveted law training positions. So engineers have no excuse not to be employable!

Best unis for Engineering?
ErrolTheDragon · 04/11/2021 16:03

I can't see a legend saying exactly what that chart is but I think from you're description it's in line with what I meant.

Eve · 04/11/2021 16:11

Loughborough ( not Russel group I believe)

Has a recent STEM lab which is very smart and a Rolls Royce lab ( aeronautical engineering research though)

Has just had an engineering specific careers fair ( my DS is there)

RampantIvy · 04/11/2021 16:16

I think Russell Group is generally used as a blanket term for what are perceived as better universities ie universities that require higher A level grades.

I would have thought that everyone knows that St Andrews, Loughborough, Bath and Lancaster are also top rated universities, and then there are newer universities who are top rated for specific degree courses.

20NewNames · 04/11/2021 21:25

Yes I agree with rampantivy. There are a handful of top universities, such as those listed, which are not in the Russell group but are of equal standing.

bruffin · 04/11/2021 21:31

@Thegingerpig

University of Surrey has always been strong for engineering plus most of their degrees include a year in industry. It’s in Guildford and on a smaller campus than most unis so might suit him better than the London unis.
My DS did engineering at Surrey ended up dropping out, but while he was there they were taking on far too many students. No room in the library , lectures in the local cinema etc
jayritchie · 04/11/2021 23:01

@TizerorFizz

Well everyone has different needs and opinions! Most of those will require high grade A levels. There is no insurance amongst them.
I'm not sure that is always good advice for candidates such as the OPs son who is targeting Cambridge so should be looking at AAA upwards.

Of the universities mentioned some may accept AAB or ABB on results day even if they state AAA or A*AA in their prospectuses. Unfortunately a lot of students and their parents think that the stated grades are a guide to course quality - meaning universities ask for higher grades then they really require.

An issue for a lot of strong engineering candidates is that if they apply to Cambridge, Imperial and Bristol they may well end up with no offers from those three. Its far safer to have 2 other great options (lets say Southampton and Sheffield for example) to give them a choice of offers.

The slightly lower ranking universities will very likely be in clearing for mechanical engineering and there would be even more open places in electrical. If results don't go to plan there are always opportunities even if a gap year isn't a consideration.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/11/2021 01:14

An issue for a lot of strong engineering candidates is that if they apply to Cambridge, Imperial and Bristol they may well end up with no offers from those three. Its far safer to have 2 other great options (lets say Southampton and Sheffield for example) to give them a choice of offers.

Yes....except I'd have thought Bristol is more in the same ballpark as the latter two (and eg Manchester) than the first two? (I don't know... my views on Bristol may be biased because the open day presentation and lab tours were weirdly unimpressive so it didn't make DDs shortlist but that was EEE not Mech and a few years ago so mere anecdata)

Needmoresleep · 05/11/2021 08:26

This thread seems to be a sort of bingo of MN tropes. Just because "everyone" says it, does not mean it is true.

  1. The one stretch, two reasonable and two safety, or some combination of these, is not necessarily the best approach when it comes to applying to oversubscribed courses. If there is an element of luck/chance involved in applications to Cambridge/Imperial etc, a better alternative can be applying to top ranking courses (hence increasing the odds of getting one) and then, if unsuccessful, taking a gap year or going into clearing. Courses demanding high grades will be able to start at a higher level and maintain a faster pace.
  1. Of course you can apply to Oxbridge and only add other choices just before the January deadline. It will not affect your chances at other Universities, and is hardly onerous, in terms of conflicting with school work. Indeed OP's son could add a couple of more competitive now and then add a potential insurance once they know what grades they need for their offers.
  1. TizerorFizz is new to this board. The merits of RG have been done to death. The strength of engineering departments depend heavily on how much the University or outside research has invested in a department. Engineering is an expensive degree, and some RG universities have focussed on, well , cheaper subjects. There are historic factors as well, so the old red brick unis are often good. Plus there are lots of different sorts of engineering. Surrey for automotive, for example. Does OPs son have any idea of what interests him? Larger departments can offer more options and more flexibility. What doors are opened career wise? What are the criteria for proceeding to the Masters? He should have a good look at the courses and the options available, and the research interests of academics.

In terms of where else to apply, one of DS's friends with five top grade A levels, went to Sheffield for effectively the same reasons. (Was not offered Cambridge, and did not want Imperial.) He had a great time and has done very well. Cambridge and Imperial can get very intense, and the short terms at Cambridge add to the pressure, whereas other places allow more time to explore other interests.

As well as Sheffield, Southampton and Manchester seem to be the main non-London Oxbridge fallbacks for DCs friends, though to be honest most head for Imperial. DD has just taken a year out from her medical degree and completed an intercalated degree in bio-medical engineering at Imperial, and was impressed. It was well organised, impressively so given Covid19 and students stuck all over the world: the IT worked, the summer school, courses, project work and exams were adjusted, and when there was an issue she got a response within the hour. The course, and to some extent fellow students, were intense, and she covered a huge amount of ground. She suspects this suited her better in her early twenties than it might have done at 18. There was a very good range of courses available, even in such a specialised area, and many of the people teaching her were engaged in internationally recognised research. She also enjoyed the sport, when allowed, and confirms her brothers earlier impression that London Universities have active societies and perhaps more going on on campus. She is very proud of having Imperial on her CV, and thinks it will help, especially if she chooses to head for research/academia.

(And for anyone reading with younger children, and to challenge another MN trope, DD found it useful to have taken more than 3 A levels. She had taken five, which probably helped in getting the place as her subjects demonstrated an interest in the maths/physics side of STEM, helped in giving her a bigger range of options and meant she was familiar with quite a lot of the early content.)

ErrolTheDragon · 05/11/2021 09:40

As well as Sheffield, Southampton and Manchester seem to be the main non-London Oxbridge fallbacks

Snap for DD ... and between those three, some of it may then come down to the quality of life aspects. Southampton was massively tempting for a watersports enthusiast.Grin

Ekofisk · 05/11/2021 09:55

I think very few schools / colleges would let students take more than 4 A levels these days. For the vast majority of students 4 A levels is a stretch - in 2019 less than 5% of A level students sat 4 A levels (10,600 students), and only 0.1% sat 5 (200 students).

Further Maths is ideal as a 4th A level for anyone planning to do STEM, but having 3 good A levels will still give plenty of options, especially for accredited courses which have to cover a set depth and breadth of study.

(And I think it’s unlikely that TizerorFizz is new to this board - unless there’s more than one poster whose DH has a gazillion engineering fellowships).

ErrolTheDragon · 05/11/2021 10:06

I think very few schools / colleges would let students take more than 4 A levels these days.

Yes... I think needs DD is the same vintage as mine, the year before they reformed all the A levels and scrapped AS. Back then, starting 4 or 5 was probably commoner as they could start a greater range and then drop one after the AS. Which was brilliant for the engineers and physicists who wanted to do a bit more than just double maths and physics, or for those who weren't yet sure exactly what they wanted to do etc. I think the funding for doing more subjects was squeezed around then too, unfortunately.

Needmoresleep · 05/11/2021 10:15

Eko, I don't disagree that five is excessive, though I think their school still allows it. (DCs fifth was electronics which was mainly building things so was a welcome change and involved some coding which proved very useful in their subsequent degrees.)

However very bright Cambridge capable STEM applicants should be able to manage double maths relatively easily so four is very possible, and helps provide breadth and options. . However this does not seem to be a MN view, including some who claim to be teachers.

My point was really that there seems too much MN adherence to "rules". You don't need to put five choices down at once, RG is not necessarily better, strong applicants may be better off aiming high, even if it means they get 3 or 4 rejections, or even have to take a gap year, rather than playing safe, reducing their chances of a top course, and ending up somewhere they don't really want to go to. Even if someone's DH is an engineer,the sector is very wide.

AvocadoPlant · 05/11/2021 10:19

Also before the reforms students were sitting exams twice a year so the A level was effectively based on 4 sets of exams over 2 years with the option to resit modules to bring your grade up.
Unfortunately Gove’s 1950’s style reforms takes it back to final exams covering the whole course at the end of Y13. Even for Maths/FM I remember DS having 8 text books, revising all that content is much harder than being able to chunk it over the 2 years.

Ekofisk · 05/11/2021 10:22

In 2016 it was 7.6% (18,450) sitting 4 A levels and 0.5% (1,150) sitting 5 or more.

The only DC I know that has achieved 5 A levels in the last few years did so by doing 4 whilst at school and a fifth one during a gap year before uni - and he is super bright and attended a very high achieving school.

Ekofisk · 05/11/2021 10:30

Needsmore I agree that anyone looking at Oxbridge / Imperial will need to have 4 A levels, including FM if it’s offered (it’s not an option in Scotland at Advanced Highers for instance).

And absolutely agree that RG unis are not necessarily going to be the best option either - there are excellent specialist engineering courses that can be found at non RG institutions..