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Higher education

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Original poster

Supporting undergrad son.

45 replies

LisaLane · 01/11/2021 05:13

What level of support should my son be receiving in first year? I ask because I think he's receiving none. This may be par for the course. He's just turned 18. Expected to produce academic essays with no initial guidance, no worked examples of an academic standard essay to look at or any pre essay input from seminar tutor which is supposed to happen, no instruction re how to reference, just a style guide for his dept. His dept's moodle page is difficult to to navigate, it took me a while to find the reading lists which were hidden in another section. Also due to COVID he's not able to access f2f lectures. I'm a secondary teacher in a humanities subject and we definitely don't teach how to reference when teaching the higher for my subject. It's not a requirement.
He's too afraid to raise these issues with his tutor and I don't think it's my place to fire off an email as his mum. Im supporting him with encouragement, suggestions for how to structure his essays and doing a quick read through for grammar etc. For context I'm a recent grad and the two experiences are night and day but I was an older student and asked questions and for guidance when I needed to. Pre COVID though. Are my expectations too high? If so I'll shut up!

OP posts:
violetanemone · 01/11/2021 05:20

It doesn't sound great, but university level study is often a little "hands off" as you're expected to take initiative and find things out for yourself.

I'm interested to know why he is too afraid to raise it with his tutor? This is exactly the sort of thing a tutor is there for and you are expected to talk to your tutor if there are things you struggle with and don't understand.

As you say, as a mature student you asked questions for guidance when you needed to. That's what he needs to do. They won't know he needs it if he doesn't ask.

University is about more than just study, it's also about adult life skills. Tell him to reach out. There will also be a library service at the university where he can learn about referencing. He needs to use his initiative.

SpeakingFranglais · 01/11/2021 05:22

IME they get bugger all and pick it up in the first few weeks from lectures and other students. This was the same for both my son in a modern uni and daughter at @ RG one.

DS taught DD how to reference.

IcedCoffeeAlways · 01/11/2021 05:24

@LisaLane I don’t remember having any guidance on how to write academic essays etc. We were just given the assignment, a maximum/minimum word count if there was one and we were told what style of referencing had to be used. We certainly never got taught to reference and were never given example essays. We were expected to go and Lear these things for ourselves.
Did he not write essays at school? 🤔 I know the referencing will be new to him but writing an essay shouldn’t really be I wouldn’t think!

Original poster
LisaLane · 01/11/2021 05:31

Wow, wasn't expecting so many replies so early! Thank you! Yes I get that he needs to use his initiative and I'll reinforce this. Also reaching out. He does need to get on with it. He's really enjoying the social side and two of his subjects. I suspect that not enjoying the third is colouring his attitude a bit. I'll push him toward the library for guidance there. He's of his generation and has no sides how to find a specific book off a library shelf. No librarian at his school and books handed out to them. Pretty spoon fed up till now so shock is a factor.

Thanks all. Seems mostly normal.

OP posts:
ParmigianoReggiano · 01/11/2021 05:38

I think the problem is that the final years of school have changed in recent years in this respect (becoming more spoon fed) whereas the first year of uni hasn't really. So the gap has widened.

daisypond · 01/11/2021 05:47

I think you are too involved, sorry. Surely he has been writing essays at school. Why would he need guidance on how to write one? Why would he need an example? And why are you guiding him on how to structure an essay and checking his grammar? The only thing I think he should have is guidance from the university on how to reference.

hellcatspangle · 01/11/2021 05:59

It's normal. I remember reading over my DS's first lab report that he sent me to have a look at, it was a shocker. I couldn't help him if I'd wanted to as I've never written a lab report in my life. They learn as they go along (his reports now read like a professional publication)

GCAcademic · 01/11/2021 06:33

Why is he afraid to speak to his tutor? That is what they are there for. Do they not have office hours?

Please step back. You are not “supporting” him, you are stopping him from learning this stuff for himself. I’m quite shocked that you have access to his Moodle, which presumably means he’s handed you his login details (a breach of IT regulations).

Many departments don’t provide sample essays for good reason. There are many ways to write a good essay and if we provide samples, students will use these as a template and not develop their own way of approaching questions and topics.

My university has a Moodle course on referencing and various webpages about it. I’d be surprised if the latter at least isn’t the case with your DS’s university. However, as others have said, referencing is not something that was taught by universities in the past, and it is easy enough to work out using a style sheet. In fact, my experience is that students understood it better and applied it more consistently when they had to work it out for themselves than they do now when we show them how to do it.

If he doesn’t know how to use a library, again, he needs to ask a member of library staff for help. He should also check out what the university provides centrally in terms of academic skills support.

Lemonsyellow · 01/11/2021 06:45

Expected to produce academic essays with no initial guidance, no worked examples of an academic standard essay to look at or any pre essay input from seminar tutor

I would be surprised if any university did differently. This is all normal. You’re meant to be finding your own way, your own voice and thoughts, not following some example. And there will be loads of books and documents in the library he can read to get an idea of how other academics have approached things. The library should be able to help re finding books. Was there an induction?

Changenameforthisthread · 01/11/2021 06:51

Yes I am also amazed at the level of involvement, and although I have 2 DC at uni doing a history course I have no idea what support they get.

baffled6th · 01/11/2021 06:56

At my uni we have enhanced our first year teaching so we do this stuff more explicitly but there is plenty of guidance around too. Students almost never read the handbook, listen to what their tutors advise, or attend office hours ! If he has online lectures, he must also be having in person seminars. I very much doubt he's as unsupported as it sounds. Hopefully it will become clearer with time.

Waahingwashingwashing · 01/11/2021 07:02

Yeah you’re too involved. Sorry.

He will know how to structure an essay - he’s done that at school

As to referencing, there will be guidance on the OLE (middle? Blackboard? Tabula?) and also possibly on the library website. The library will also most likely run referencing classes (all 3 of the unis I’ve worked at have) and if he Googles there will likely be advice there including you tube videos.

EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia · 01/11/2021 07:06

OP, you’re babying him.

I too am a bit astonished at the granular level of your over-involvement. Anyone can look at a university / departmental website - but it is completely inappropriate to even question whether you should be taking action ‘as his mum’.

Is your son living at home? Maybe not, but you’re giving the impression that you still view him as a schoolboy. He’s not. No one is taught university skills at school - you acquire them through active, independent study for a degree.

Bathtoy · 01/11/2021 07:11

The library will almost certainly run referencing/style sheet guides.

Waahingwashingwashing · 01/11/2021 07:13

*moodle.

Why are you holding his hand like this and why are you checking everything for him? The more you do that the less he will seek out support at his uni.

I too am surprised you’re accessing his Moodle. That’s not on and you must know that.

EnidFrighten · 01/11/2021 07:13

If he was in his first job you wouldn't be logging into the company intranet, criticising his line manager's management system etc. Be there for him to talk to but other than that, it's time to step back.

I'm sure he'll be able to write a good and well referenced essay at some point, leave it to the uni.

BeautifulBirds · 01/11/2021 07:15

At my uni there are extra sessions that can be attended f2f or online. These cover topics such as how to reference, writing at level X, Y, Z, research skills, etc. These are available for undergrad and post grad. They are run via the library. If he has a look round his moodle/blackboard site there should be info on there. Failing that get in touch with student services and they will direct him.

junebirthdaygirl · 01/11/2021 07:16

My dd told me that in first year at University girls were crying when they got their first essay as had no idea what was expected. They were used to being spoon-fed at school so expected hand holding but none was forthcoming. Its seems regular to just throw them in at the deep end and they soon learn. Leave him off. Most parents wouldn't have a clue themselves so don't even ask. I think the fact you were recently at university causes you to get involved. The rest of us don't want to know. Somehow they make it out the other side having learnt these things.
By support l thought you meant money as that's all my ds,s wanted from me...more money!!!

EdmontinaDancesWithOphelia · 01/11/2021 07:17

Failing that get in touch with student services and they will direct him.

I’m assuming you mean the student should do this, not his mother?

Peaseblossum22 · 01/11/2021 07:18

Excellent book on referencing is Cite it Right , published by Palgrave always lots of copies on Amazon second hand . The library website is likely to have study skills sections similar to this;

www.ed.ac.uk/institute-academic-development/undergraduate/courses/study-skills

Or Manchester also has a very good open access resource.

Just google the university with study skills and it will pop up. Also his dept should have a handbook with guidance.

I am surprised at people having done no referencing before university , both of mine were taught to reference as part of Their humanities A levels, both history and English had coursework elements which had to be properly referenced and ds2 did an EPQ which also involved referencing .

The bottom line is though that he needs to do this himself.

VerveClique · 01/11/2021 07:20

Jeepers!

You need to say to him to:

Speak to his personal tutor and ask questions
Go to the library and ask questions
Google stuff and see what he comes up with
Ask friends on his course/on other courses/from school at other unis
Ask his subject tutors
Really interrogate any online resources he has access to
If all else fails just have a go and get the work done and submitted and look forward to feedback… if he doesn’t get feedback/doesn’t understand it/doesn’t agree with it…. Speak to the subject tutor/personal tutor

This is the sort of help you should give!

This is what uni is like.

ohdeariforgot · 01/11/2021 07:21

It's his degree, NOT yours!
He needs to do this himself.

In general parents know their child is doing X degree and in year Y and that is it!

Farwest · 01/11/2021 07:33

Your son is lucky to have you. You can explain how to be successful at university, show him where to look and who to speak to. From there, though, he's on his own to fail or succeed as he will.

Above all, he needs to access his tutor. He needs to think of the tutor as the first person he asks, rather than his mum.

Fine to chat about academics and offer support or advice, but he needs to start finding his own way to the resources he needs.

shylatte · 01/11/2021 07:39

OP I think you are getting a hard time here. The boy has just turned 18, is perhaps not the most confident or outgoing and maybe has been spoon-fed in school so has no idea where to start.
For essay writing, as a general rule: 10% of word count for intro, 10% for conclusion and the rest for main body. IME different lectures could vary widely as to what their preferred style was. I remember being marked down for leaving 2 spaces after the full stop (back in the days when this was a requirement) because he didn't like it Hmm.
Anyway first year usually doesn't count for degree classification so this is his year to find his feet really.

shylatte · 01/11/2021 07:42

If it's Harvard, the Open University have an excellent guide. It's a pdf file so I can't attach it here, just Google OUNHarvard referencing guide. I always signpost people to it.