How did your overwhelmed teen fill in their UCAS application choices?

[lljkk]

If you had a teen who found the UCAS choices very hard to make, how did they decide in the end?

I ask in case there is a way of choosing I haven't thought of so far.

Trying to keep this concise. Rather than Uni, After A-levels, DS/we would like DS to do a higher apprenticeship, but the process is very confusing, hard to get places. It seems like DS has to directly approach & sell himself to employers if he wants to stay local, persuade them they want to create an apprenticeship for him. DS won't directly approach & sell himself to employers. Else wait for adverts (may not happen) that could take him anyway in UK. Apprenticeship is Plan A but it might not happen.

DS wants UCAS application for a conventional course as Plan B, but he's overwhelmed how to narrow down to just 5. Within 3 hours travel time, there are dozens of possibly suitable courses at a tariff he might achieve. We have discussed Software Engineering, Data Science, Data Analysis, Computer Science. Looking at the modules doesn't help DS decide between them.

His only firm decision is a campus (not city) university. He's unlikely to consider Uni if his results or CCB or worse (can eliminate those tariffs). The filters on FrogUni & UCAS website are very limited.

Any other ideas how to choose?

I’d be seriously pissed off if I’d driven to Southampton and my child refused to get out of the car! How ridiculous!

Better than going through the whole application process with no universities visited, then refusing to get out of the car on drop-off day, I suppose.

I went to an open day at Southampton with DS1 - there was a bit of a hitch with the 'meet, greet and provide shuttle bus' process at the station, which I found rather trying as I had been quite unwell for the previous day or two, but it was all sorted out and DS1 loved what he saw.

I suppose if he'd refused to go any further, I could have had a day out shopping and he could have taken himself off home again. With all three of ours, most university visits have been by public transport, as that would be the way most journeys would be undertaken once they were actually there.

In a sense we did the opposite - visited none as I wanted them to choose based on where their peers were going and status of the institution for their CV and a visit might put them off for arbitrary reasons. Also I think we did not have time to take them round and they chose not to go alone on a visit although the oldest did do weekend at a university as I did in the sixth form which was an arranged trip for a particular academic subject. (They may not do them these days and mine was in English lit but in the end I chose law instead )

In this case the boy prefers apprenticeships so the UCAS application is just the additional extra just in case. I would put the 5 hardest to get into universities where he has a chance of getting in based on exam results (and if the distance is an issue then limit it by distance).

@lijkk we had almost the opposite problem where dd narrowed it down too much. It worked out for her but I think it could have been risky.
If your ds doesn't have strong feelings about anything on offer then maybe the way to play it would be to say that he can't go wrong - most universities of similar rankings and similar type courses are going to be fairly similar. So maybe try and reduce his anxiety by suggesting that is not as though there is The Perfect Place for him and he might miss it but that there are 15 great places for him and he might as well pick 5 based on fairly arbitrary criteria eg cost of a train ticket home, number of clubs in town, cost of accommodation in the first year....
I am close to someone who finds making choices overwhelming but has been so much better since they learned that there are very few "wrong" choices just different paths - also that a choice at any stage rarely closes down other doors that could be chosen later if that makes sense...

From a parent and employer perspective op:

With a possible BBC university choices are unlikely to be that great, possibly a number of Post 92's and a realistic backstop.

The apprenticeship roll outs have been very slow at the higher levels and are largely untested.

Might it be worth your ds looking at a Level 3 apprenticeship offering day release, the structure of a job and a small salary. This will give some breathing space and support him to decide whether the apprenticeship route is for him all the way through or with a bit of maturity he feels ready to go to uni.

FWIW and mine are now through uni, they did their own research and made their own choices. If they hadn't been able to I think it would have been the wrong choice for them.

I would put the 5 hardest to get into universities where he has a chance of getting in based on exam results (and if the distance is an issue then limit it by distance)

don’t pick universities like this, it’s just stupid.

Ds only really got enthusiastic about the idea of university once he had seen his first campus/city and imagined himself there. Without that it would have been completely abstract. Also the only one he mentioned at all before the visits was St Andrews, a 9 hour train journey away, which is not even on the list any more.

DT’s worked out what degree they wanted to do and where it was offered. We had a two week‘holiday’ with them both visiting their top five. It proved very useful. DD had St Andrews as her number one - it was the highest ranked in her subject of her five choices. When we visited she decided it was too remote and she wanted somewhere nearer to big cities. DS had before visiting organised his five in order but again after visiting liked some more than others and totally changed his mind - mainly from talking to other students and lecturers he met.

cloud although what I do is what most people and schools do surely? If you are top of the school then you have al ist which will be places like Oxbridge, LSE, Durham, Bristol etc. Then you have the next tier and and and on down to the places that will take you almost no matter how bad your A level results.

Why would you not aim for the best you can manage with your A level results?

You need your child to go somewhere that suits them Xenia, DS1 would be capable of going to lse for example but it wouldn’t suit him at all to be at a non campus uni in London.

He’s at a very well regarded highly academic independent. They are all advised to go on visits.

@Fruitygal - can you explain the Cambridge Uni technique?

You wrote:
Got him to use notes section on phone and write down Everything he was interested in over a month. (Cambridge uni technique)

I am reading other replies.  Organising, lists, sorting on paper.  It's what I'd do for myself, too.  Probably did do.

What does your child really, really want to do/ where so they want to go?? Let them do that.

If they can't plot their own course yet. Ok. Let them wander for a few years.

Apprenticeships are brilliant if highly motivated and focused.

Honestly if I had my time again the only thing I would counsel is time and self-direction. Not whilst school age. But for HE, they really need to choose their own path.

You need your child to go somewhere that suits them

Definitely, definitely this, for a first degree at least because it isn't all about the academics, it's also about a course they are going to enjoy, in a location they like, and a myriad other considerations.

Getting a degree from Durham is not automatically better than getting it from, say, Manchester if you have a child who is going to massively prefer being in Manchester… The former may be more prestigious but that's only really relevant if you're going into certain, specific fields.

I would tell him that loads take a year out between school and university, he can spend some of that time visiting friends who have gone to university which will have the advantage of an inside look at places as well as open days. He can focus on doing his A levels this year and perhaps consider taking a career profile test even if it just to kickstart ideas. I would also say, similarly to a PP, that choices are not black and white but often it is timing and maturity rather than just place and course that helps get the most out of an apprenticeship or degree.

Does any 17 or 18 y ear old really know what suits them? Some want to go where their friends go even if it is a bad university. I think they need to be told which universities are better than others (and no that has nothing to do with en suite bathrooms, night clubs or anything else like this). Also if other students like it that probably means you do not work very hard - so perhaps avoid those where the students are very happy too!

. Ok

Pretty sure you say these things just to be contentious (particularly since it’s well known who you are) so I’m not engaging.

My DH loved Cambridge so I guess we are ruling that one out in the Xenia method of university selection.

@cloudtree
Of course she hadn’t ruled out Cambridge. The list wasn’t exhaustive! It’s the normal way most people look at university application if your are MC and ambitious! What’s an ambitious choice and then others that are back ups.

There's still plenty of room for choice even if you're ambitious and MC But no visits is pretty daft. There's little difference between Durham and Bristol and Manchester academically but loads of difference as a place to live for three years. So why wouldn't you visit them all!

DT’s - forecast all A’s at A levels ruled about Oxford and Cambridge together with places like Bristol, Durham, St Andrews and any London Uni (we live in London) - everyone looks for different things in their Uni life. It doesn’t mean they aren’t ambitious. They got their forecast A levels and went onto getting 1st in their degrees and importantly enjoyed themselves.

It’s the normal way most people look at university application if your are MC and ambitious!

It is far from normal to say that if the students like a university it means they don’t work very hard so you should avoid universities where the students are very happy .

Anyway, each to his own.

@cloudtree
I didn’t say that. Most students who are very ambitious and clever do look at LSE, Cambridge etc for Economics (for example) because it’s well documented their alumni earn more! Ditto with Law from certain universities. I’m not suggesting for one minute young people should be unhappy or that they will not work hard anywhere else. However firsts from the university of “nowhere” won’t be viewed in the same way as a first from LSE or Cambridge. It’s that simple and it’s why many students realise where is best for them and why other universities way down the list do not suit their ambition as well. Depends what ambition looks like of course but I totally get Xenias point about looking at the best for your career. You only rule places out if you cannot access them academically. Manchester isn’t the same as Durham in the eyes of many.

No you didn’t say that but Xenia did.

And nobody disputes that there is a ranking of universities. But it isn’t as simple as saying imperial is higher ranked than Exeter this year so you go to imperial. They are two vastly different universities.

And to be honest even in the most conservative of professions like law (I am a senior lawyer, as is dh) nobody is going to choose Durham applicant over say Manchester applicant just because their degree is from Durham. Admittedly there will be a preference for a pre 92 university over an old poly.

But the fact remains that it is a bad plan simply to pick the five highest ranking universities that you have the predicted grades for.

[quote TizerorFizz]@cloudtree
I didn’t say that. Most students who are very ambitious and clever do look at LSE, Cambridge etc for Economics (for example) because it’s well documented their alumni earn more! Ditto with Law from certain universities. I’m not suggesting for one minute young people should be unhappy or that they will not work hard anywhere else. However firsts from the university of “nowhere” won’t be viewed in the same way as a first from LSE or Cambridge. It’s that simple and it’s why many students realise where is best for them and why other universities way down the list do not suit their ambition as well. Depends what ambition looks like of course but I totally get Xenias point about looking at the best for your career. You only rule places out if you cannot access them academically. Manchester isn’t the same as Durham in the eyes of many.[/quote]
DT’s didn’t get their 1st from nowhere - one from Warwick and the other York. One is now working for an engineering company in Amsterdam and the other for the EU in Brussels. I got my 1st from LSE. I rank my and DT’s 1st equally.

I work in corporate finance- we interview for graduates blind so don’t know where they went to school or Uni. It’s not relevant in selecting the best new employees. Many firms are now using this approach.

I suppose I agree that I ignored any university ranking list that gave any weight to 'student satisfaction' because I have filled in those surveys as a recent retrainer and I think they are meaningless.