How did your overwhelmed teen fill in their UCAS application choices?

[lljkk]

If you had a teen who found the UCAS choices very hard to make, how did they decide in the end?

I ask in case there is a way of choosing I haven't thought of so far.

Trying to keep this concise. Rather than Uni, After A-levels, DS/we would like DS to do a higher apprenticeship, but the process is very confusing, hard to get places. It seems like DS has to directly approach & sell himself to employers if he wants to stay local, persuade them they want to create an apprenticeship for him. DS won't directly approach & sell himself to employers. Else wait for adverts (may not happen) that could take him anyway in UK. Apprenticeship is Plan A but it might not happen.

DS wants UCAS application for a conventional course as Plan B, but he's overwhelmed how to narrow down to just 5. Within 3 hours travel time, there are dozens of possibly suitable courses at a tariff he might achieve. We have discussed Software Engineering, Data Science, Data Analysis, Computer Science. Looking at the modules doesn't help DS decide between them.

His only firm decision is a campus (not city) university. He's unlikely to consider Uni if his results or CCB or worse (can eliminate those tariffs). The filters on FrogUni & UCAS website are very limited.

Any other ideas how to choose?

@lljkk

Those grades are not too low for Jaguar Land Rover apprenticeship jobs via Warwick... See link

www.jaguarlandrovercareers.com/content/Apprentices/

He needs to do some research on the actual courses. If he thinks about what aspect of the subject interests him most he can read up on the syllabus and work out which uni offers a course that interests him. DS went for a less prestigious uni because he preferred the course, even though he was offered a place at a uni higher up the ranks. He adores his course. That's what matters. And has been told by friends on the other course (same degree but different syllabus) that it is quite dry and dull.

Can he visit a few unis with you, with a group of friends or on his own? Get a feel for them. Or go on Student Room and ask current students what the halls are like, food, social life etc. It is a bit overwhelming but if he makes a list of things that matter to him (e.g. own bathroom or shared, F2F teaching or lectures online, opportunities to travel or take placements etc as part of the course) then that will help create a short list.

Multiverse is the company set up by Tony Blair’s son to provide info/links to pathways other than university

NotgoingtoUni similarly has links to opportunities / I remember being surprised when I looked at it with one of my kids how many big blue chip companies have schemes for school leavers

What matters in the end is getting a job. Loving the course is a bonus on the journey to employment.

Thanks @Daisysway.
That's what I mean about confusing.
Warwick degree apprenticeships? "No vacancies available"
Warwick apprenticeships in software engineering? "No current vacancies" (think this is one with AAA requirement)
But then the Jaguar one has 35 vacancies (your link). Sigh.

DS would say "What is Jaguar? Should I want to work in the car industry? Is Warwick where I should live? How do I tell if that's better than any other option?" He doesn't know answer to even one of those questions and he's not resourceful at finding even one never mind many answers - plus he doesn't understand how someone like me would be sure I found even one good answer. To him, whole thing seems impossible to figure out.

I agree that DS has to organise whatever happens. That's why I asked how any overwhelmed kid ever got past being overwhelmed.

Thanks @secretbookcase - DS also suggested online open day videos (recorded, I'm sure). He seems too overwhelmed to do any of the stuff you mention and no way will I force him reluctantly to an Open Day. A month ago I talked thru a load of in-person visit options but he didn't want to make decisions -- too overwhelmed... (?)

Don't forget that it all seems overwhelming now, but as you keep looking and reading you (he) will learn more, there are still a good few months to go. Even in a few weeks, he will have more of an idea and by the time the January deadline comes round, he will be in a completely different place (metaphorically!)

For universities I would look at what the accommodation situation is like in the second year. Check whether your DS will need to live off campus in second year and, if so, where is he is likely to end up living and what it is likely to cost. For some universities there seems to be such a shortage of second year accommodation that first year students are already in a frantic scramble to sign joint tenancies with people they have only known for a couple of weeks.

OP
Have you gone to open days?

DS would say "What is Jaguar? Should I want to work in the car industry? Is Warwick where I should live? How do I tell if that's better than any other option?" He doesn't know answer to even one of those questions and he's not resourceful at finding even one never mind many answers - plus he doesn't understand how someone like me would be sure I found even one good answer. To him, whole thing seems impossible to figure out.

This sounds worrying in the sense that university study requires so much more self led learning and initiative. Is he really ready / capable?

I’m concerned about his ability to cope at university too. “What is Jaguar” seems odd! Apprenticeships won’t work if he doesn’t know the companies or what work might entail. So he needs a far narrower set of objectives. This gives set criteria for choice. I don’t think he’s ready though and he needs better clarity of thought. Gap year perhaps?

If he is totally overwhelmed, there's a lot to be said for a gap year. he can get his driving licence if he hasn't already, work locally (loads of entry level jobs everywhere right now in hospitality and retail and deliveries). He could take his time to have a couple of visits to unis, spend some of hisearnings on travel in the summer.

If he's overwhelmed maybe he's not ready. Several of DC's friends waited last year. They all managed to get a job and moved from being uncertain to being really excited for the future.

DS has just started a degree apprenticeship in aeronautical engineering. He was determined to get a degree without getting the debt that comes with university although he did apply through UCAS as a back up plan. This time last year he applied for 10 -15 degree apprenticeships - it is quite hard work, long application forms, online tests, online interviews and assessment days if you make it through to the final stages. He reached the final stage with Jaguar Land Rover but didn’t get it - these apprenticeships are very desirable and competitive. He was successful with Rolls Royce and now lives in Bristol - he is sharing a house with 3 other apprentices and all going well so far. He deferred his uni place until this time next year just in case things don’t work out and was careful to choose a degree with a year in industry as this is likely to make you more employable at the end.

The apprenticeship application process was hard work - your ds would need to find ways to make himself stand out (work experience, out of school activities) - I think software degree apprenticeships are even more sought after. The Student Room is another good source of information and people sharing similar experiences.

I agree that the degree apprenticeships are competitive.. I think my friends daughter was the only one taken on 2 years ago (Computer Science) but like a past poster stated she shared a house with two other apprentices during Yr first year(different fields). I would say that her A levels were good but not Stellar (AAB).

But obviously if he doesn't know what a Jaguar is then it's a definite no goer.

No Open Days attended, spotcheck. I can't talk him into it.

I Agree he's not a good candidate for leaving home any time soon! This topic has been muttered joke between me & DH for many yrs. That's why I was keen on an apprenticeship in someone's office, with daily supervision, but commutable from our home.

DS already has (has had) menial jobs & clear intentions not to do that for life.

Unexpectedly, I think I'm feeling more relaxed. UCAS submitted in January is probably Plan C or D. Plan B is "whatever happens".

NotG2U & Multiverse are annoying me I search for apprenticeships within 20-50 miles & lots listed but all of them are actually independent distance learning & some of it is not free, some modules are computing skills DS already has/will learn soon.

tbf, if there were lots of apprenticeships in 30 miles, DS would probably be overwhelmed by too much choice there, too.

I sympathise with tour frustration over trying to weed through degree apprenticeship opportunities. I’m also drowning. (I’m just getting informed in case this is the right route for my current yr 11)

Your

At sixth form patents evening a few weeks ago we were told there are hardly any degree apprenticeship opportunities out there and those that exist are extremely competitive.

It sounds to me like your ds isn’t ready though. He should be doing open days and he should be doing them now. warwick for example was today. Has he even done online open days?

If affordable for you I would take him to 2 or 3 cities where suitable courses are based and arrange to go onto the campus plus walk about the town, see if he can see himself living there. It doesn't need to be an official open day. I would narrow the choices perhaps to 2 hours transport as it gets costly to return much further. Finally get him to think about hobbies, either current ones or things he fancies trying eg if he fancies sailing then on the coast is a good idea, if he likes the idea of going rock climbing then Midlands and nw are good locations. Some cities are better for nightlife, other campuses are actually on the edge or semi rural. Basically anything to cut down the options,

Both of mine are on pretty specialised courses so options were limited, dd1 actually listed only 3 as they were the only 3 courses available excluding Scotland which was an extra year so less affordable

Realistically

1. Write a list of all universities that do data analysis or software engineering
2. Discount those who require more than his predicted ABB or which ask for a subject he doesn’t have or S gcse grade he doesn’t have
3. Discount those more than three hours from home
4. Split remaining into campus snd non campus and decide what he wants -enclosed student village feel or vibrant city life. Discount accordingly
5. Hopefully now you have about 7/8 left. He needs 5 so log on and do online campus tours of all 7/8 and read the course content/find out about teaching style and contact hours.
6. Ditch 3 so you have 5 left
7. Put those on his form

In all seriousness though I would force him to visit the five he shortlists though. We went to warwick today. It was DS’s number 6 and he was probably jettisoning it based on working through the method above. We thought from the online open day/tour that it looked a bit grey. In actual fact he loved the vibe and the course talk and it’s now moved right up to his number 2 (although I have some doubts due to low contact hours and the fact that all lectures are online). He’s now jettisoning loughborough instead which has really surprised both him and us.

Op
I would try and see if he can go to at least one open day. But beyond that, if he can't be bothered to go, then he won't be able to make a choice, and he won't drag his ass to actual university.
If he doesn't want it, he doesn't want it.

Also re the apprenticeships- stop thinking about them in the same way as education. He may indeed do some of the same modules, but if it is the next level up from where he is, then they will go into greater depth.

Finally- even if he does a level 3 apprenticeship, it may still be a good opportunity, as it will be a foot in the door, OR the company may have good progression options.

PS
Also- apprentices do not pay for their training
And NG2U etc give vacancies which are available now. They change.

You can't get him to an open day but can you persuade him to do a diy walking tour of a campus near you? Lots of the universities have an app you can download so you can explore at leisure. There won't be the subject talks but you can see the library, students' union etc. This would give him a benchmark to compare with others even if only with their virtual tours.

@lljkk hi, had this with DS2. Great work ethic for paid employment so always on time and good with people but unsure if he wanted to go to uni as friends weren’t. Also nervous at interviews needed uni to spread his wings and not going to be good at self study with courses that needed you to read books for hours a week. Had no clue what to do. Bright but had not worked at 6th form as job, social life and gaming (plus modifying his gaming computers) rather than study focused. Grades not stella as a result so not RG? Got him to use notes section on phone and write down Everything he was interested in over a month. (Cambridge uni technique) It pointed to tv and film production. Clueless about courses but we started to look at them and learnt quickly. Most modules were essays snd practical projects like making tv show, editing a set of rushes, planning filming etc no exams ! Graduated and working on major TV shows. Uni built confidence snd direction - first Christmas after starting came through the door didn’t stop talking about his course for 40 mins ….. first time super passionate about anything he had studied and also super chatty normal friendly but single sentence teen. Uni snd the course transformed him. Notes technique may work. Other course friends DSs have done well in are Cyber Security ( course at Coventry uni - friends kids now with at GCHQ on £40k starting salaries). Both were gaming boys - one a chip eater the other was clueless about course but found it by chance on an open day for something else. The only way to choose a uni is by visiting so I’d book places at a uni with several courses he likes. Go to all the talks he might then compare course types snd start to discount and also get a feel for the place. He’ll get a vibe about what he likes. Really good luck - tell him from my son - go to uni you’ll love it!

Ps @lljkk we started this in last week of September only picking up speed in October and November with form into ucas 2 weeks before Xmas. So don’t despair! Once he saw he could do practical degree nothing like school study he was so happy - I was dubious in the first visit as I’d only seen and experienced academic degrees. His degree was more like an apprenticeship in terms of building practical skills and very vocational.

@Malbecfan

I've posted this before but will do so again as it's relevant. DD is now 22, so it was over 5 years ago now.

She knew she wanted to apply for Natural Sciences and we had visited Cambridge in the summer holidays between year 11 & year 12 and spent a day wandering around. She put together a long list of places offering the course then struck out those which were only Biological Science leaving around a dozen places. She and I went on a road trip in May half term. We live in Devon so I drove north and we started in Newcastle, staying in a Travelodge. We arrived mid-afternoon so hopped on the train to Durham and had a wander round there. In the morning we looked around Newcastle, then drove to York where we had a wander and some lunch. So far, DD liked Durham & York. We drove onto Leeds (she hated it even though I studied there) then Sheffield (hated) and stayed overnight near Mansfield in a Premier Inn. The next day we visited Nottingham (hated) and Warwick (liked) then came home. In the summer holidays, I drove to Southampton (hated & refused to get out of the car), Bath (loved), Cardiff (hated) and Bristol (ambivalent). That narrowed her list down to Cambridge, Durham, York, Warwick and Bath but she also wanted to include Imperial, so I think she ditched York for her final selection.

It wasn't scientific, but she knew what she wanted and seeing the campus and location, even quite briefly meant she had an idea about the places. She got offers from all & ended up at Cambridge.

Wow you’re very tolerant I’d be seriously pissed off if I’d driven to Southampton and my child refused to get out of the car! How ridiculous!