How are 4 year language degrees funded?

[sergeantmajor]

DS is deciding between applying for History or joint History & Spanish. He would get a loan for his tuition fees but we would fund his living costs. For financial reasons only, we'd prefer him to do a 3 year degree, whereas most language courses are 4 year, including a year of study abroad.

However, I was talking to someone who mentioned that the year abroad is very inexpensive, with minimal tuition fees abroad and living costs largely covered.

Can anyone fill me in on how it works? (DS's school is no use)

You need to spend the year abroad to properly develop your language skills. It's the third year. Then you come back for final year. When I did it I did it through the British council and got paid to be a language assistant in a school.

When I did my year abroad there were no tuition fees and I got an Erasmus grant and university grant!

But there are other options - you can get a job, you can be a language assistant, you can work alongside your degree (all if permitted due to Brexit).

I have to say I am not sure why European countries are making it so difficult for British students. You'd think they'd want to encourage outward-thinking non-little-Englanders to spend time in their countries rather than putting them off with ghastly visa requirements.

But I would say do it. My 3rd year was the best year of my life.

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

Err??? Because WE pulled out of Erasmus and the EU! Didn’t you realise this would change our status? Being a language assistant can be great but sometimes lonely if DDs friends are anything to go by. The university placements enhanced their learning by studying additional subjects and friends were more readily available as opposed to teachers. Jobs have become difficult.

However, I was talking to someone who mentioned that the year abroad is very inexpensive, with minimal tuition fees abroad and living costs largely covered.

It was when I did it - although living costs weren’t really covered, I had to work, but everyone did. But that was Erasmus, and we chose to leave that during Brexit.

The replacement scheme seemed dire in comparison but I haven’t stayed up to date to see if it’s been improved… if it hasn’t, I wouldn’t be recommending. It was amazing for me, but stressful, and I think any more stress around money/visas etc would have made it unbearable.

I did go and work in Europe for a bit a few years after I finished uni, too, so I suppose that might play a part in how valuable I think it was.

My DD didn’t work. Erasmus plus our parental contribution was fine. However air fares need factoring in if a long way from home! Working is now a big problem. It’s all changed due to Brexit.

DD didn’t have stress other than finding somewhere to live in Bologna!

OP, you need to treat a lot of the posts on this thread with a huge amount of caution, as they are describing the situation pre-Brexit or under post-Brexit transitional arrangements which won't be available to your son. The UK has pulled out of Erasmus. Whilst some transitional arrangements under Erasmus were still in place for students going this year, I can't imagine they will still be in place by the time your son goes abroad. Unless your son has the nationality of an EU member state (Irish being the obvious one that a lot of Brits are entitled to) he will need a visa to do a year abroad in Spain. DD is in her first year of studying Spanish, so I have been keeping an eye on social media posts about students trying to get visas for Spain. By all accounts it's an expensive process. It appears to be not uncommon for people to spend upwards of £600 on trying to meet the formalities. (I think it might be due to a need to get a certified translation of documents into Spanish. ) This year a lot of students appear to have given up on trying to do a year abroad in Spain because there were not enough visa appointments available to meet the demand. From what I've read, getting a visa that allows you to work is very difficult. Getting a visa to study appears to be easier, but still an expensive process. If money is tight, you do need to do your research and factor in realistic costs for applying for a visa. I agree that knowledge of another language is a fantastic asset in many different ways, and I know from personal experience how rewarding a year abroad can be. But Brexit has sadly changed the goalposts for British students in terms of the level of complexity and cost involved in arranging a year abroad in Spain.

[quote TizerorFizz]@lockdownmadnessdotcom

Err??? Because WE pulled out of Erasmus and the EU! Didn’t you realise this would change our status? Being a language assistant can be great but sometimes lonely if DDs friends are anything to go by. The university placements enhanced their learning by studying additional subjects and friends were more readily available as opposed to teachers. Jobs have become difficult.[/quote]
This!
EU countries were very keen to see us stay in Erasmus. And our miserable replacement scheme doesn’t allow for reciprocity, so we have far fewer EU students coming over to the UK.
All part of Johnson’s culture wars.

Yes, pulling out of Erasmus was such an owl goal. And for what? I don't think the Brexiteers really cared either way so why did we shoot ourselves in the foot? I have lots of students leaving for Erasmus placements (I'm in the EU) and they have a great time and learn so much. A lot of them wouldn't be able to afford it without Erasmus.

*own goal!!

[quote TizerorFizz]@lockdownmadnessdotcom

Err??? Because WE pulled out of Erasmus and the EU! Didn’t you realise this would change our status? Being a language assistant can be great but sometimes lonely if DDs friends are anything to go by. The university placements enhanced their learning by studying additional subjects and friends were more readily available as opposed to teachers. Jobs have become difficult.[/quote]
I voted to remain in the EU - and one of my key reasons was because of Erasmus! I do not need lectures from virtue signalling MNers who assume everyone is a Brexiteer {angry]

BUT, any sensible person (whether here or outside the UK) knows that the people currently at university largely did not get a chance to vote in the referendum. So why punish them? A country can make its own visa rules and I would want to attract outward looking British students, not make it as difficult for them as possible.

@Bolognesedoc

Yes, pulling out of Erasmus was such an owl goal. And for what? I don't think the Brexiteers really cared either way so why did we shoot ourselves in the foot? I have lots of students leaving for Erasmus placements (I'm in the EU) and they have a great time and learn so much. A lot of them wouldn't be able to afford it without Erasmus.

It seems to have been a massive case of dog in the manger. I don't want to live or work overseas so why should other people have that opportunity. Saw exactly that sort of attitude on Twitter.

But Erasmus funding and visa requirements are different things.

DD is 3rd year and her friends have gone abroad. The friends studying Portuguese haven’t gone to Brazil as they’d hoped (COVID worries) but to Portugal instead. Students studying Chinese have gone to Taiwan due to COVID limitations.

@LIZS

Some unis are three year courses including a year abroad. Lancaster for example offer it as an option to students studying many subjects.

That's interesting! I did a language degree at Lancaster in the late 80s and spent my year abroad doing a teaching assistantship that the German govt paid for. The fact that they're now offering three year courses suggests to me that they've had to take affordability into account. I do get the impression students are a lot more hard up now than when I was at uni.

[quote titchy][[https://www.ucas.com/undergraduate/what-and-where-study/studying-abroad/what-turing-scheme]][/quote]
Super useful - thanks

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

You clearly said in your first post that it was EU countries making life difficult and quoted Erasmus when you were a student. It did appear you didn’t know we were at fault. I take exception to the “virtue signalling” comment.

lockdown
I think it's the balance of places between universities - we'd agree to take say, 20 incoming Erasmus students per university, and they would reciprocate by taking UK students. Now we won't accept them, so it's an unfair burden on the EU universities to give our students the privilege of studying there for a very low price. I don't think they are just being difficult for the sake of it. The reciprocal quotas are much more fragile now.

Sorry. Got interrupted!

It’s very important that language acquisition abroad for MFL students is still available for y3. If it’s not, the whole degree is dumbed down. This would not be acceptable and universities really shouldn’t have MFL courses that are 3 years. They cannot be good enough.

I think the Brexit brigade were just anti EU for everything. They were warned but didn’t care. After all stem is the mantra! It’s a truly appalling situation and it must change so y3 is still abroad. The British Council pays students so presumably can help with visas. University visas should cost less as the student isn’t earning. Let’s hope common sense prevails!

20 per university is tiny. I’m sure the bigger MFL departments would expect hundreds of students from the EU.

Well yes - but they wouldn't all come from the same university. You'd get some from Heidelberg, some from Bordeaux etc, so yes, loads in total but spread out amongst lots of exchange universities.

Similarly if you take quite a big Dept like Leeds or Manchester or Exeter you'd see a handful of students go to Barcelona, some go off to the Sorbonne, some to Tubingen or Konstanz, so each host university would only get some, and would only be sending some of theirs in exchange.

@antoniawhite
Yes I understand that but some big departments have a lot of host universities because they teach a full spectrum of MFL and not all places are for MFL students either. Exeter has slimmed down their MFL dept I heard. Whichever way we look at, the funding needs to be sorted or only the better off will go.

Exeter hasn't slimmed down its MFL Dept - it teaches seven languages - French, German, Italian, Russian, Chinese, Spanish and Portuguese, most of which are offered post-A level and at beginners.
Yes - lots of places are for non MFL students in universities as a whole.

I did a language degree and the tuition fees during the third year were something like £1500 rather than the full normal amount, but I still got the same amount of maintenance loan as the other years. On my year abroad I studied for one semester and worked for the other six months, so I was quids in that year. This was 2016 but I'm sure visas can still be worked out.

A country can make its own visa rules and I would want to attract outward looking British students, not make it as difficult for them as possible

What makes British students so special? European countries haven't made up new rules to make life difficult for anyone, but British people will now largely be in the same pot as people from any other non-EU country applying for a visa.

I don't know if you know how much visa requirements for international students coming to the UK have changed over the years but i can tell you it's a lot harder now than it was 15 years ago.