Medicine 2022 entry

[Monkey2001]

Support thread for aspiring medics.

We want all our DCs to succeed, whatever their school type. We share knowledge to help them to achieve their goals, celebrate success and support if things don't go well.

As we press the "send and pay" buttons on UCAS, we wish all our DC the best of luck in this tough year with so much uncertainty.

@Haffdonga well done for making it through that extra stress. I think in that situation you can submit without the reference and supply it later, but it all adds to the stress!

Just the long wait now...…

Thanks - you think it would be easier when they are a supposedly self-directed grown up but it's just more frustrating because they know everything better than me!

Good luck to everyone here waiting for interviews

And on the dexterity question, ds2 had to follow a set of instructions and build a complex structure while talking about the NHS in one of his interviews. Perhaps we should get our applicants practising on some flatpack furniture ...

Multi-tasking is an important skill in all jobs! Just about all medicine interviews are now going to be on line now, so the opportunities for tasks like that and role plays must be limited.

Is anybody still expecting any F2F interviews?

Would be interested to hear from any parents of 2020 applicants about thoughts on the on line interview experience.

Depressing article in Times Higher about student numbers for 2022. In particular, govt is suggesting med schools don’t over-offer, just offer the number of places they have, but manage numbers using reserve lists. That could mean that the 5,000 or so strongest candidates end up with a Firm and Insurance whilst thousands more are wait listed and won’t know where they stand until results day. More likely 2,000 with 2 offers and 4,000 with 1 offer, then 2,000 find out on results day IF the med schools follow govt advice. I think there are normally about 12,000 people with offers. www.timeshighereducation.com...queeze-england

TH is free, but you have to register.

.... oh, and don’t forget there were 37k UCAT takers this year, 2019 29k, so I fear 50% fewer offers for 28% more applicants, so the real decrease in offer rate could be more like 60%.

@Monkey2001

Depressing article in Times Higher about student numbers for 2022. In particular, govt is suggesting med schools don’t over-offer, just offer the number of places they have, but manage numbers using reserve lists. That could mean that the 5,000 or so strongest candidates end up with a Firm and Insurance whilst thousands more are wait listed and won’t know where they stand until results day. More likely 2,000 with 2 offers and 4,000 with 1 offer, then 2,000 find out on results day IF the med schools follow govt advice. I think there are normally about 12,000 people with offers. www.timeshighereducation.com...queeze-england

TH is free, but you have to register.

Each of the last 3 years just seems to have got worse for medicine applicants. For medicine there were 19,900 offers made in 2021 v 22,600 in 2020. So they did cut offers last year, but still ended up oversubscribed as number of Firm offer holders only reduced by 50 (as you have said previously, far fewer people with multiple offers, some of which would normally be rejected - there were 11,700 Firm acceptances). So they have been burned, and are now being beaten with a big stick by the Government, to improve morale, so will be extremely cautious with offers this year, I feel, as you say, with waiting lists likely to be used exclusively. It is likely to lead to more of what we saw last year, where med schools hold off finalising decisions until those with early offers accept or reject them, but applicants cannot do that, as may well still be holding on for a decision from another med school! We are likely to see lots of people with offers to one med school, who would rather go to another, and that 2nd med school ends up using waiting lists (which strictly speaking you cannot stay on, if you have accepted an offer elsewhere) or Clearing, with people then fearful of making Firm decisions too early. So hold on for a prolonged and bumpy ride, I'm afraid.

@GANFYD and @Money2001 do you expect things to be just as bad next year, or worse? My daughter will be applying next year.

She is very young for her year and wants to take a gap year. I'm half-minded to encourage her to just concentrate on A levels next year and apply the following one.

@opoponax depends if they really do hold the cap, if med schools limit offers and if there is a reduction in grade inflation (and they stick to the levels already declared, as med schools OUGHT to be able to model that).
If they adopt the head-in-the-sand attitude of recent years and just carry on doing what they have always done and hope for the best, it will be a shitshow for years to come.
This year have got it bad, whatever, but next year could still be rescued, if med schools stop and think about all the factors that are apparent to everyone watching what is happening.

@opoponax

She is very young for her year and wants to take a gap year. I'm half-minded to encourage her to just concentrate on A levels next year and apply the following one.

Nothing to be lost in applying for a deferred place next year, as if unsuccessful, she has at least had a trial run of the process and will have that experience for a 2nd go, if needed

@GANFYD, even tougher drop than I thought then, although the 22,600 offers were presumably across around 10,000 applicants.

I agree about the people having to accept one of their less preferred courses whilst on the waiting list for top choice. Med schools could help by telling people where they are on the list, but I suspect they might not want to.

@opoponax I was going to say the same, do a trial run of the application process and if she gets a deferred offer, great, if not, she will have experience of UCAT and interviews when applying in gap year.

I think that it is going to be another awful year because there will be such a build up of candidates from prior years with inflated grades applying from gap years in 2023. It seems to me a bit like the driving test situation, all these people still applying because they are in limbo. So I currently think 2022 will be worse because there may be far fewer offers, but 2023 will be tough because there will be more applicants than ever. Ughhh.....

@Monkey2001 22,600 offers and 11,750 Firm acceptances in 2020.
Med schools did not twig on to the likely issues soon enough, and whilst it is the Government's u-turns and massive grade inflation that have been the major issue, med schools could have done more to miitigate the ongoing damage, I feel, had they stepped back and seen what was obvious to most onlookers.

Not at all ideal for 18 year olds who find it hard to make up their minds...

Ah, I thought you meant the 11,750 firm acceptances were in 2021, I can't remember the numbers. I don't think UCAS answer FOIs, but it would be very interesting to see the numbers for offers and firm acceptances over time.

Another thing which needs to end is schools telling people they should do medicine just because they are clever! I was talking to a friend this afternoon whose nephew has taken a year out after starting at Newcastle in 2020. He struggled with the Covid world and didn't really want to be a doctor anyway (wanted to be an architect). I know another girl whose peers were bemused when she applied for English at university. They assumed that because she was clever she would be doing medicine. Maybe there should a compulsory year working in a care home to pre-qualify!

Thank you very much @GANFYD and @Monkey2001 for your wise words, as always. I agree that there is a lot to be said for her just having a go next year but treating it like a trial run and if it comes good then great, but if not, then nothing lost. It's a bit of a nightmare isn't it.

@Monkey2001

Ah, I thought you meant the 11,750 firm acceptances were in 2021, I can't remember the numbers. I don't think UCAS answer FOIs, but it would be very interesting to see the numbers for offers and firm acceptances over time.

Another thing which needs to end is schools telling people they should do medicine just because they are clever! I was talking to a friend this afternoon whose nephew has taken a year out after starting at Newcastle in 2020. He struggled with the Covid world and didn't really want to be a doctor anyway (wanted to be an architect). I know another girl whose peers were bemused when she applied for English at university. They assumed that because she was clever she would be doing medicine. Maybe there should a compulsory year working in a care home to pre-qualify!

You know my thoughts on this one!

It was 11,750 in 2020 and 11,700 in 2021, so despite 2700 fewer offers, there were only 50 fewer firm acceptances.

I think care home for a year is a brilliant idea. I've thought for a few years that it should be a 3 year post grad qualification - a bit like a PhD. I think it could be done with 48 week years like in clinical years now and with a foundation year for anyone without a science degree. It would really cut down the numbers to those who are serious and aren't applying due to family pressure but also it would just enable people to be a bit more mature and certain of what they want.

Before I spend the next hour trawling through last year's TSR threads, has anyone already worked when interview emails were sent out last year from various courses?

Universities get UCAT results at end of Oct/ beginning of Nov. Invitations to interview will start around 8th Nov. DS1 had all interviews before Christmas both times he applied, but I think last year most interviews were a bit later. Very few offers before Christmas. They start in Jan, most in Feb/March. Many may be late this year as the med schools have been told they must not over recruit.

@KingscoteStaff - DD found this timetable. Not sure if it's right but it's worth a look.

www.uniadmissions.co.uk/application-guides/when-are-medical-school-offers-sent-out/

Thank you @SandyBayley!

I hope all the BMAT prep is going well. DD is fretting that lots of her friends have already got offers for their 5th choice but she hasn’t (Chem. at Nottingham).

@SandyBayley that list may be right, but in previous years offers have been more spread out. DS1 had all 3 of his offers for 2020 by the end of the Feb half term break and most med schools, in my experience, sent offers in waves, KCL starting before Christmas and Newcastle in Jan. Oxbridge and Sheffield stick to their published dates.

Interviews for those eligible for extra time can be right at the end. So DD had three in a week in mid March.

She was actually the first in her year to get an interview offer, about this time. It was pain for her to then to have to wait five months and to have a difficult clash with mocks, coursework etc. Not least because it was not clear how extra time in interviews would help.

My dd applied for medicine before COVID but I would agree with what @Monkey2001 said. The offers from the universities she applied to came in waves, not just on a set date. With greater pressure to get the right number of places/offers this year, it might all be different but as the interviews are done, the medical schools know who they definitely want from each batch, who is a maybe depending on later interviews and offer acceptance rates and who won’t be offered a place so at least some of the universities have tended to make at least some of their offers as they go along.

You've got me thinking now if medicine offers this year get online interviews and I've heard they splinter off into break out rooms to do tasks as a group (as they did last year) etc then will teaching students do their interviews online too? Seems it's only medicine and education applicants who have to interview and last year they were all done online. I wonder does anyone know if that's the case for education?