Medicine 2022 entry

[Monkey2001]

Support thread for aspiring medics.

We want all our DCs to succeed, whatever their school type. We share knowledge to help them to achieve their goals, celebrate success and support if things don't go well.

As we press the "send and pay" buttons on UCAS, we wish all our DC the best of luck in this tough year with so much uncertainty.

@Toofaroutallmylife - that's insane! I think DD's thinking was she'd rather know her results to manage her expectations re: Oxford interview next week. But with Cambridge the chance of an interview is much higher I think so less to worry about at this time?

That's good and completely appropriate notmedicmum. If there's no mathematical uplift at source then Oxford has to take notice of it in a different way - perhaps by pushing through all those at the borderline with a special circumstances note? Usually you'd expect an uplift by the exam board but perhaps with the BMAT that's too difficult to calculate.

I'm sure the unis will all say they have taken all the requests for special consideration into account but there will be no way of assessing that. I'm quite sure they won't explain their mechanisms.

Quite. Which is why with Oxford's formula those who fall in to the 'being considered by a human as opposed to computer' category may be pushed through if they have a special considerations note attached to the BMAT. At least those with a very high A* equivalent count at GCSE for whom the BMAT put them just the wrong side of the line. That would make sense.

One of the problems this year is that so many people have all A equivalent - the double whammy of there being more 8/9 than A anyway and the hike in grades for exams in 2020. Will be even worse next year!

@Abetes

You can look at the BMAT score distributions for this year. Those scores put him very near the top of the cohort so he should be fine for an interview at Leeds. Good luck.

From your lips to God’s ear… thanks for the positivity! And good luck to everyone’s DC.

The issue is also how do Universities account for the varying degrees of BMAT disruption. If the degree of disruption was such that a strong student just came out the wrong side of line with their BMAT score and a human judgement call can be made then good and well. But what about the ones who would have performed very well in normal circumstances and the level of disruption was such that their score was pushed right down. Surely they would just fall through the net in this scenario, especially as Monkey said that the abundance of top GCSEs for that year group makes it difficult to differentiate on that basis.

@sydenhamhiller that score is easily enough for top quitile at Leeds. DS1 got 5.1, 4.9, 3.5A first time he applied and that was top quintile for Leeds. Your DS's score is very high. Unless the system has changed, Leeds don't contextualise other than A2L, so he should be very comfortable.

@opoponax I agree, it is difficult to see how medicine scoring systems can deal with such a varied level of disruption when you can't tell what the impact would have been. Some people were kept under exam conditions for several hours whilst they waited for the exam to start. Others, such as @mumsneedwine's students had lag issues and answers disappearing. Some Cambridge colleges might manage, but the others, who need a number, are likely to have a simple approach which either gives a nudge or adds a general adjustment which may or may not reflect the actual impact.

@mumsneedwine how did your students do?

@Monkey2001 mixed bag as usual. Ones who did the resit BMAT have scored v v well though. I've written to the Unis of those who had bad tech issues (but no resit), but doubt they'll even look at mitigating circumstances. Fortunately ones with lower BMATs have higher UCAT so should still be ok for interviews (strategic applying as usual 😊).
Interviews starting to trickle in. Sheffield, Newcastle, ARU and Kings so far.
Hope everyone is doing ok and let's hope for more lovely interviews this week 🤞🤞

@mumsneedwine glad to hear the offers coming in. Do you know whether the second BMAT was a different exam? Overall do you think the results your students got were distorted much by the problems?

@Monkey2001 I can't say I'm afraid, or they won't let us be a BMAT centre next year. Although as I'm not sure I can cope with a third year of stress this might not be a bad thing.
I think some of our students have v distorted results due to their papers crashing and their results are obviously disappointing. It's always hard to predict BMAT results as they are all bright kids and the margins on scores are so small, but I'd definitely say the IT issues have cost some kids their interviews.
If I had the energy I'd be v cross. But teaching is becoming so tiring at the moment I don't have the head space.

@mumsneedwine 🫂💐

Wishing everyone luck...

@Monkey2001 I understand that section 1 was the same on all papers. Section 2 was apparently easier for those that retook the paper.

The papers have been standardised so any differences in easy or hard should be taken out. Think mine did better as they knew what to expect 2nd time attempting it 🤷‍♀️

Daisyway yes all the kids re-taking would have known whether it was the same or different so I can't see that it needs to be a secret with sanctions attached for those who blurt.

Very interesting about S1 and S2. Gosh it all seems an even more massive mess than ever.

So the marks given out yesterday across the two papers had been subject to standardisation but special circumstances for those who couldn't re-take but had problems comes in the form of a note attached by CAAT? Is that correct or am I missing something?

There always seems to be an excessive amount of luck involved in a good BMAT score - DS1 got something 4.9, 5.1, 3A first time and 6.8,7.0,3A second time, which is a difference between something like top 10% and top 0.5% although he did less preparation second time.

The whole medicine application game feels too arbitrary to me - 20,000 people competing for around 6,500 places(?) and obviously there are loads who are good enough who don't get in and probably plenty who get in but shouldn't and it unlocks a 250k training place and job for life.

I think I would like the GMC to manage a much more rigorous process to select people eligible to apply then the medical schools could compete to attract the ones they want. Companies invest more effort in recruitment than this. My process would include a week long assessment residential for anyone who wanted to be considered, with workshops, seminars, tests. I think the army does that sort of thing for officer recruitment.

@goodbyestranger 😂 yes, it's that exactly. All a bit of a mess.
I do agree @Monkey2001. The application process seems to have become so confusing now and could do with an overhaul. Remember one Uni saying it's not an interview for Uni, it's a job interview for life. Think each Uni looks for slightly different things which is good, but basing decisions on a 2.5 hour exam seems a bit of a lottery. But I have no other solution so I'll shut up. Glad I don't have to make the decisions.

@Monkey2001 trouble with that plan is it is prepareable for, so people with money will send kids on courses so they do better. WP would go out the window (unless they could devise a way to mitigate somehow ). Also would need to be fully funded which would be v expensive. Some of mine couldn't afford 5 days away from home as they have jobs (that help feed their families).
I don't think anyone suited to medicine will make it through the 5/6 years these days, as so much patient contact, which is assessed. I may be biased though as mine is 4th year which everyone says is the toughest.

@Monkey2001. I totally agree with you about a standardised application process.. There should be some pooling process like Oxford to ensure that all the most suitable and able candidates are offered places.

It is rumoured that some offers maybe made on a condition of sitting the BMAT again in February with a satisfactory score to make the offer process fairer. Not sure how true this is, but would really add an additional amount of stress.

My close friends son didn't get offered a place last year despite a strong application and undoubted exam results. He has been a hospital porter for the last 12 months and reapplied this year.

@Daisyway that's what happened last year with BMAT. But Brighton and Leeds really were the only ones who accepted the resit.

Trouble with a centralised system is the differences in Unis approaches would not be accounted for. Different training methods suit different people and I do believe the Unis know what they are looking for.
It will never be perfect as there are so many students wanting to do a course with limited spaces. Loads of v good candidates are rejected every year. They'd all make good doctors.
Until we can expand the NHS and therefore F1 posts there's not much that can be done. Medical students are training on wards this winter that have been deemed unsafe due to understaffing. Not ideal.

@mumsneedwine I agree that different medical schools train in different ways which suit different applicants, I was suggesting that the Central pool would be the recruitment ground for NHS and when NHS had agreed that they would like a person, they are pre-approved to apply to medical school. I think it is much harder to coach someone to do well in a longer assessment. An assessment week could also include providing a better overview of other options such as Physician Associate or Specialist Nurse.

@Monkey2001 that does sound a very good and sensible plan. So unfortunately will never happen 😂

Cambridge interview invite received yesterday😊