Medicine 2022 entry

[Monkey2001]

Support thread for aspiring medics.

We want all our DCs to succeed, whatever their school type. We share knowledge to help them to achieve their goals, celebrate success and support if things don't go well.

As we press the "send and pay" buttons on UCAS, we wish all our DC the best of luck in this tough year with so much uncertainty.

@notmedicmum I'm giving lots of v unprofessional hugs today.

I think the BMAT problem is very widespread. Why couldn't they just have a paper test like the Natsci people? You would have thought that after the shambles last year they would have taken great care.

Sorry for all those affected, I hope the universities come up with a fair way of responding to it, they must be as angry as the parents!

BMAT resit for people who couldn't finish (or start) it is next Weds. If had difficulties then just get 'special consideration'. Make sure those forms go in !! Utterly unfair and going to affect so many students.

So the people who struggled through with glitching technology will just be stuck with what they got? Do you think it will be the same paper next week? What a mess! Given the problems they had last year I really don’t understand why they did not just revert to a default of a written paper this year.

There is no fair answer to any of this, but I am sure they could have done better than that.

@Monkey2001 you and me both. My language was not good when email arrived. Kids who had constant crashing papers or took hours to get started just have to rely on school sending forms. Which several Unis just ignored last year.
No idea if same paper or not - nothing would surprise me !

DD had a practice online interview today which she said was terrifying! She also got her 5th choice offer, which has buoyed her up no end.

Hi - re: BMAT - does anyone know if the paper being offered as a re-sit on Weds (10/11) will be a new paper or the same as the one that was taken on Weds (03/11)? Just wondering what the detail of the advice to the centre/school says.

I'm asking as most students now know the S3 essays and have talked about the questions in the other sections, it would seem to give those resitting an unfair advantage as they can spend the weekend etc prepping for same.
Also, if you worked through the whole paper and couldn't complete at end you'd already have had advance sight of a lot of it.

Am hoping I'm over-worrying but haven't heard from my school/centre so would be interested to know.

@Angharad01 no one knows. It is ridiculous. Some poor students won't know until Monday that they are doing it again on Weds - lots of exams officers will not have been in today.
Nothing about it is fair. Wednesday was hideous. Nothing to say it don't just happen again next week.

mumsneedwine

BMAT resit for people who couldn't finish (or start) it. If had difficulties then just get 'special consideration'. Utterly unfair and going to affect so many students.

I get that this is awful and difficult. It affects everyone but no one knows quite how it affects them as an individual and everyone assumes it will affect their cohort more disadvantageously than the other cohort.
But - without trying to minimise the issues and I do totally get that at this stage of a student's life everything feels hugely important - it's not much different from pretty much all speciality training application processes being stopped last year, no interviews and lots of people doing "self assessment tickbox exercises" in order to rate themselves as suitable for a training number. The NHS is a pretty crap employer and the sort of shambles these students are experiencing to get onto the start of that ladder feels a bit like "start as you mean to go on".
I do feel for them. But there are students moaning on TSR that they can't possibly do an exam on Wednesday because they won't be ready (but apparently they were ready last Wednesday?). It just feels as though they have no idea what the next 40-50 years of their life is going to be like if this derails their coping ability so much.
I appreciate I'm probably being unfair. It's been a crap couple of years and this was their chance to show what they can do.
But, given that the shambles has already happened, this seems like (probably) the least worst way of trying to solve it. (Assuming they do provide a new paper).

It would be insanity to use the same paper again. They must have a back up paper surely?

I've reread what I wrote and I know it sounds unkind which wasn't intended at all.
I can't work out a way of wording what I'm trying to say.
I think the bottom line is that "the system", be that the NHS or their training deanery or most trusts, do not care one iota about the individual and their experience. They care about providing a service as cheaply as possible and with as little hassle to themselves as possible. Until very very recently (and it may even be true in some specialties now) you weren't allowed to work less than full time in a training role unless you could justify your reasons (parenting, caring and some health conditions). Just wanting to work 4 days a week wasn't allowed. I know people who had children younger than they wanted to just so they could work LTFT.
It's crap and in my little corner of that world I try and make my trainees' experiences fantastic and personal and try to care about them as people. Ironically, working LTFT allows me to do that.
It should be beneficial to the system for people of all personalities etc to be part of the medical world. But the reality is that the system can't deal with that.
Students who can't cope with uncertainty for example should consider whether they should be doing medicine - in another few years they are likely to be given their job details and rota details less than 4 weeks before starting a new job, sometimes not even knowing which hospital in a deanery the size of 2 counties they are starting in. That's not how it should be - the system should support people and allow for people who struggle more to be supported (and give the bloody rotas earlier) but it's a bit like a battle - if someone gets mown down, someone else will be walking along behind them and step into that place. Most of them will learn to cope with the crap; a few will fall along the way
If I was a teacher or parent seeing someone fall to pieces over this i would be talking to them about the realities of continuing because in a few years this will seem like small fry.
But I understand their angst (my kids are 17 and 18; I've been there) and I'm sorry if I sound as though I'm being heartless...
I'm not sure if this has come across any better. I'm so not being critical (or trying to be anyway) - just reflecting that this sort of shambles is par for the course...

Chilldonaldchill my DS and his cohort were caught up in exactly what you describe. Very frustrating to have that as a substitute for selection for specialty training but as you say: c'est la vie.

I think it would be fairly easy for them to come up with new essay titles for section 3, but I don't see how they could rewrite sections 1 and 2 unless they had some ready. Oxford used to want all applicants to sit the same paper, which is why

........ they didn't accept the September sitting.

I think that if Cambridge Assessment had a spare paper they would have said "it's OK, we have a spare paper".

Apparently last year lots of people cheated by using calculators. All is rubbish, but as the govt is rubbish, I don't know when anything will get better!

I agree that using a different paper throws up more difficulties than using the same one, in these circumstances. There's a lot to be said for old fashioned paper exams.

@Chilldonaldchill answered more on other thread. I do agree that medical students and junior doctors are treated appallingly (my own is a 4th year at a Uni that told them their exam results last year - and then told them they had made a mistake - fortunately didn't affect mine in the end but was a horrible 24 hours).
But at least they are on their course. At least the ST cock up didn't prevent them even becoming a doctor.
No one has fallen apart as far as I know, but they are angry. The person sitting next to you did the paper as expected whereas you had multiple system crashes and lost work. But your scores will be treated the same. It happened last year so really was no excuse.
No word yet on whether it's a new paper or the same one.

[quote mumsneedwine]@Chilldonaldchill answered more on other thread. I do agree that medical students and junior doctors are treated appallingly (my own is a 4th year at a Uni that told them their exam results last year - and then told them they had made a mistake - fortunately didn't affect mine in the end but was a horrible 24 hours).
But at least they are on their course. At least the ST cock up didn't prevent them even becoming a doctor.
No one has fallen apart as far as I know, but they are angry. The person sitting next to you did the paper as expected whereas you had multiple system crashes and lost work. But your scores will be treated the same. It happened last year so really was no excuse.
No word yet on whether it's a new paper or the same one. [/quote]
No I do get this and I understand why they're pissed off. I won't reply in the other thread as I don't want to derail a non-medical thread.
And I've said before that we desperately want and need good medical students/juniors so I really hope that this works out for everyone who should be getting in. I just am really aware that medicine is such a holy grail for so many people and maybe it shouldn't be!

Name change fail 🙄.
I'm glad they've not fallen apart and I'm really glad they're angry.
Anger is what we need at the junior end of
the profession. Then maybe we'll see genuine improvement in standards and expectations.
It's ridiculous that 2 doctors in their early 30s living together and having a child together or two cannot plan ahead for nursery, travelling to work, where they should live etc more than a few weeks before they start their job and not have any significant control over where that job is (other than "somewhere in Gloucestershire or Oxfordshire"...).
But I genuinely hope that things work out for as many people as possible...

@Winestopsthewhine trouble is that we won't know who 'should' be getting in this year to BMAT Unis as it's such a mess. Do think medics are treated so badly with exams throughout their careers. Not ideal 😞

This is such a shame to have happened again.

The only fair way in my mind would be for every candidate to sit the exam again, and have a new paper.

@Monkey2001

So the people who struggled through with glitching technology will just be stuck with what they got? Do you think it will be the same paper next week? What a mess! Given the problems they had last year I really don’t understand why they did not just revert to a default of a written paper this year.

There is no fair answer to any of this, but I am sure they could have done better than that.

And @mumsneedwine Completely agree. Not fair at all to either those that completed the paper whilst system crashed or those that completed the paper with no issues (if they are sitting the same paper). As DH said to me, “life’s not fair” but it seems especially UNFAIR when CAAT b***xed it up and with CAG GCSEs it was the only public exam that BMAT unis could assess their candidates by. What are unis going to use to assess applicants by on the UCAS form???? According to DD, unis don’t trust the predicted A level grades either

Perhaps they'll have to chuck the BMAT in the bin and interview far greater numbers than usual. That may be more possible with interviews online.

And add to that the growing uncertainty about whether exams will happen in 2022!

It is not such a problem for Cambridge as they interview most candidates with a realistic chance of getting AAA (80% of Home applicants), but the ones which narrow down pre-interview do have an issue.

We just have to hope that the universities consider fairness. I think they should just interview twice as many applicants as usual so that people are not eliminated due to poor systems, and have a chance to prove themselves.

@goodbyestranger

Perhaps they'll have to chuck the BMAT in the bin and interview far greater numbers than usual. That may be more possible with interviews online.

Ha, same thought! Imperial could definitely do that as they are doing a 2 stage process this year with a first interview which you do off line and upload, then a second one which will be with a real person. I think SGUL did off line interviews last year.

Exams did happen last year in most schools - just we wrote them, marked and moderated them. So we did the exam boards jobs (while still having to pay them). No reason at all that exams can't happen next summer - be nuts if nightclubs are open but we can't have kids sitting socially distanced !