Advice please-post A level reapplying for Maths - Cambridge

[AFingerofFudge]

I'd be really grateful for any advice about DS2's slightly unusual situation regarding reapplying to Uni.
I'll try to keep it brief but include anything I think that relevant. I have posted about him before in this section.

He has just done his A-levels in Maths, Further Maths and French and got A* for maths and A's for the other 2 subjects.

When he originally applied to university last October, he wanted to go to Oxford for Maths and so he applied there and essentially just other random universities that he had no interest in going to. I think in his head he just thought his destiny was Oxford and so he didn't really give any other thought to it. It is worth saying that he although he exceptional at Maths, he has vey little common sense and struggles with things like using a knife and fork, articulating a sentence etc. Sometimes this also means his ability to think through a situation isn't very clear and so he is prone to making rash (sometimes incorrect) decisions.
Anyhow, he didn't get an offer from Oxford, and although had offers from the other universities he applied to, he isn't interested in them and doesn't want to go to university this year.

One of the problems is that if you are studying maths, it is generally widely discouraged to have a gap year so he is thinking of repeating further maths to work up to getting an A*. He is wanting to teach this to himself during the course of this next year along with the STEP for applying to Cambridge. So he would like to apply to Cambridge but I'm now sure if
a) they would consider him if he is re-taking FM, and
b) should he really be staying at school so he gets some teaching and marking?
His school is your average inner city comprehensive that isn't used to having students apply to Oxbridge and haven't been able to support him so far with this. No special help or advice has been available. They would be happy to have him again this year for FM though.

I just don't know what to advise him to do for the best. Should he go back to school? Is it worth trying Oxbridge again? Is there anything else he could be doing in his non-gap year to show that he is keeping his hand in with maths? Is there anything else he should consider?

I'd be really grateful if anyone has any advice or thoughts on this

Has he any thoughts on what he’d like to do after the degree?

@stubiff "more maths" is the only thing I can get from him when I ask

Some wise posters like @ohyoubadbadkitten may be along to advise?
There is also a poster involved with maths at Oxbridge- palladon or something similar?
Might be worth asking mn to add cambridge to your title- report your own post to mn.

@thesandwich thank you. I can't work out how to report my own post? I'm on my phone and it doesn't seem to give me an option

Does he have a particular college in mind? He could email the admissions team of the college(s) he is considering, to ask them whether it's worth him applying in his situation, and whether he'd have any chance of getting an offer. Hopefully they'll be able to give advice on whether it's feasible.

@pallando is the person I was trying to recall

Sounds like there are 3 scenarios.
One is trying to get in now, but assume he’s not doing anything actively in clearing, and most/all suitable options will have gone.
The other two are apply to Cambridge, one with the current grades and one with an A* grade.
For the latter he’d need to do FM through school/college. If he retakes on his ‘own’ then isn’t he effectively applying with his current grades? And therefore he’d be no better off, for Uni apps at least.
So as a PP said best to see what the criteria is.
That said, it sounds like a gap year is kind of enforced and there is no harm in applying to Camb.
What you need to say to him though is that he needs to take an offer elsewhere if Camb reject, as sounds like to you at least his natural level is not Oxbridge.
If he does FM somewhere then maybe a Computing course to fill the time would help.

Thanks thesandwhich (not sure about wise )

So you know where the advice is coming from - Im a parent with a dd going into fourth year of cam maths.

AFingerOfFudge Your ds has done so well with a school that is an inner city comp with no oxbridge history.
I think I'd be asking a few questions:

Why cambridge rather than reapplying to Oxford? Is it the more time to prepare for entrance? How did he do on MAT? Did he get to interview?

Has he done any STEP work beforehand? If he were to try an old STEP 1 paper at this point, how would he get on with it?

I would in the first instance contact each of the colleges and ask if it is worth him taking the approach that you've outlined. Then at least you have a starting point. The list of requirements is in this document - it might guide as to the best ones to start with.
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/mathematics_subject_requirements.pdf

www.christs.cam.ac.uk/how-apply-1/post-qualification might be helpful.

Thank you both.
@OhYouBadBadKitten I have said to him that he is as well to email some Oxford colleges as well as the Cambridge ones if he is going to do that. I think he was thinking of Cambridge not only because he felt he'd already been rejected from Oxford, but also he could be seen to be "doing" something this year if he prepared himself for the STEP. He didn't get to interview at Oxford because he had a panic on the day of the MAT and messed some of it up which isn't like him usually with exams; I think it was a bit overwhelming but I also think if he did it again he'd know more what to expect.

Maybe also get him to do some serious research into other universities which are strong for maths , for example Imperial, Warwick, Bath are the ones that come up most often.

Yes @stubiff I think he is a bit more realistic now and will apply to other universities that he will actually consider going to.
Last time round he literally wrote the names of the universities that popped into his head. Seriously. He couldn't be persuaded otherwise. This is where the lack of common sense lets him down, not much rational thinking happens.

@Peaseblossum22 our posts crossed but yes he has said he will look at Durham, Warwick and Bath.

Why did he not get an Astar for FM? Issues with the assessments or the material not being covered by the school or him?

He may be an exceptional mathematician but that may become more evident when he has a research project at postgraduate stage rather than through exams like STEP or MAT if exams can be a weakness. Lack of rational thinking will also manifest itself in exams under stress.

Please don’t take this the wrong way.

He’s obviously a very able mathematician. But is he truly exceptional, or was he exceptional just for that school, do you think? Does it generally come very easily to him and he was briefly flustered by both the FM exam and the Oxford paper, or is there quite a way to go before he’s confident he can smash the FM?

Has he tried any of the Maths Olympiads, to judge where he might lie more generally?

To answer you both : Exceptional for that school definitely. I have no idea beyond that, but our experience is only within that school. It is a good school but they clearly struggled to provide for his needs. He didn't get taught the whole of the FM curriculum. During lockdown, they took quite a while to get up and running with online teaching so he just got set work and so wasn't actually being taught. Then when they returned to school last September his FM teacher went off long term sick so again no teaching until after February half term this year. So he missed a large chunk of teaching and essentially just taught himself.
He has done one of the maths Olympiads and progressed quite far but I can't remember to which level without asking him (he's in bed!). But I mentioned on another thread that he took part in one a couple of years ago but the school didnt tell him it was on until the day before and it happened after school. He had a part time joh he needed to get to so he could only stay for 15 minutes of the Olympiad before he had to leave to get the bus. He still got the best mark in the school.
So I guess I'm calling him exceptional because he's my son, it definitely feels it to me.
Maths has always been his "hobby" - he spends hours doing it each day, even in the holidays when he doesn't need to.

I do have another question to gently ask, that you may not want to answer here for privacy- does he have any SEN?

He could still work on STEP this year and apply to Warwick, Bath etc. It wouldn't be wasted effort.

Ha OYBBK! I have always said (in a joking way) that there's a label out there for him somewhere (before anyone says anything - I do not wish to label my children but I think I would be able to "get " DS2 if there was a diagnosis)
He is a complete mismatch of abilities which don't slot nicely into anything obvious. He can't use a knife and fork still, can't tie shoelaces, can't ride a bike well. He can however play the piano to a high grade, climb a very high tree and play football very well.
He gives good eye contact but doesn't like hugs or invasion of personal space. He struggles to articulate himself and has trouble with rational thinking. He is struggling to learn to cook despite my constant teaching (he put a wrap in the microwave for 10 minutes the other week). There's plenty of other examples but I don't want to go on and on!

Could I gently suggest that you consider using this year to get an Educational Psychologists report on his learning needs. As someone whose eldest dc went without despite in retrospect needing some extra support in terms of organisation, learning techniques etc and who had a very difficult experience I would strongly recommend it. Support at University can be excellent and for example over 10% of students at Durham have some form of registered disability ranging from dyslexia, dyspraxia through ASD to chronic medical conditions such as Crohns and Diabetes and physical disabilities. They can provide access to a mentor, advice on organisation and also useful software and support with exam modification where needed.

I would suggest contacting the GP first. Ideally if you can do an E consult or similar noting down what he struggles with and what he can do well etc. This can be a fairly time consuming process to get a diagnosis so start it now but as your son would be 18 he would also have to be on board with this.

I agree with Hazy. It would be really useful for him to have an assessment. If he does have something like ASD or dyspraxia, a diagnosis will open doors at university that will help level the playing field. He could get free access to things like the Brain in Hand app which many find really useful for organisational skills. He could get access to a mentor, quiet rooms for exams, extra time, a laptop, accommodation adjustments etc.

It might feel late in education terms, but its something that he can then choose to reveal or not in life. He doesn't have to tell anyone he doesn't want to and it could make a huge difference to a successful university life.

Sorry Pease I realised I basically repeated what you said!

Thank you both for that suggestion. I feel quite embarrassed and neglectful that it's not something I've done earlier. It sounds mad but I honestly felt that he was coping fine with school and school have never suggested that they had any sort of concerns. I will definitely look into it. I have a friend who is an EP who has known him since he was a baby so I'll ask her too.

Don’t feel embarrassed, our eldest was the same , he coped well , academically fine etc . But he was having to spend a lot of time coping and I think it’s only when they leave home that it becomes obvious how much subtle scaffolding you are providing at home for him. Once that scaffolding is removed things can fall apart pretty quickly, I wish I knew them what I do now , things might have been different .

I've sent you a pm Fudge.