Advice please-post A level reapplying for Maths - Cambridge

[AFingerofFudge]

I'd be really grateful for any advice about DS2's slightly unusual situation regarding reapplying to Uni.
I'll try to keep it brief but include anything I think that relevant. I have posted about him before in this section.

He has just done his A-levels in Maths, Further Maths and French and got A* for maths and A's for the other 2 subjects.

When he originally applied to university last October, he wanted to go to Oxford for Maths and so he applied there and essentially just other random universities that he had no interest in going to. I think in his head he just thought his destiny was Oxford and so he didn't really give any other thought to it. It is worth saying that he although he exceptional at Maths, he has vey little common sense and struggles with things like using a knife and fork, articulating a sentence etc. Sometimes this also means his ability to think through a situation isn't very clear and so he is prone to making rash (sometimes incorrect) decisions.
Anyhow, he didn't get an offer from Oxford, and although had offers from the other universities he applied to, he isn't interested in them and doesn't want to go to university this year.

One of the problems is that if you are studying maths, it is generally widely discouraged to have a gap year so he is thinking of repeating further maths to work up to getting an A*. He is wanting to teach this to himself during the course of this next year along with the STEP for applying to Cambridge. So he would like to apply to Cambridge but I'm now sure if
a) they would consider him if he is re-taking FM, and
b) should he really be staying at school so he gets some teaching and marking?
His school is your average inner city comprehensive that isn't used to having students apply to Oxbridge and haven't been able to support him so far with this. No special help or advice has been available. They would be happy to have him again this year for FM though.

I just don't know what to advise him to do for the best. Should he go back to school? Is it worth trying Oxbridge again? Is there anything else he could be doing in his non-gap year to show that he is keeping his hand in with maths? Is there anything else he should consider?

I'd be really grateful if anyone has any advice or thoughts on this

Thank you @Peaseblossum22 - it all sounds very familiar. Thank you OBBYK for your thoughts too. I'm going to find the time to ask him gently about the possibility of investigating the ASD possibility. It does seem astounding that we have got nearly 19 years down the line before looking at this.

Hi OP, I think you should use this time to get an independent Educational Psychologist to assess your son - I have a DS with SEN. Some schools spot this early and are wonderful - others, not so much. It is a pity as it is the child who loses out on potential educational opportunities.

I would try to get your assessment ASAP and get your DS to retake the FM at school and then apply to Cambridge and Oxford and all the other Universities. Hopefully the assessment will point you to the additional supports you are entitled to and people on here with more experience can help you navigate it with him.

Hi OP, I have a DS at Cambridge studying a Maths based subject. I am aware that taking a gap year it really not allowed for Maths. FYI the application process if your DS decides to go for it is UCAS by 15th Oct, then sit a Cambridge exam paper at his own school, depending upon exam results (which you will not be told the result) your DS might get an interview (Nov/Dec), then hopefully an offer in Jan/Feb.
GCSE grades are also a factor in getting an interview. Straight 9's are the norm.
When my DS was looking at Uni's I am aware that Cambridge implied that 3 A levels might be enough, however the reality is that all my DS's peers have 4 A levels including Further Maths and the all got 4 A*s.

3As might be enough for a self-starter who is the first from his school.

@MistandMud

3As might be enough for a self-starter who is the first from his school.

Unfortunately not for Maths at Cambridge and he will also need to get the appropriate levels at STEP which for Cambridge is not taken until next Summer and not prior to interview. It is STEP that usually trips many very able mathematicians up and causes them to miss Cambridge offers even with 4 x A* at first sitting.

Would you be willing to say whether he holds a current place and where that is?

I think that you ( or ideally he) should speak or write to one of the access teams for your region/ the college he is thinking of applying to. Details below.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/area-links

They will be able to give him a steer on expected grades, mix of subjects and whether or not he would be at a disadvantage presenting grades achieved in two separate cycles. They will also be able to factor in any perceived Covid impact on grades being presented this year eg will grade inflation lead to higher offers for this cohort?

If he attended a poorly performing school and has special educational needs they should be able to give you a steer on what impact that may have on any offer.

You should also remind him that Oxbridge access at undergraduate level is something of a lottery with lots of well qualified candidates not getting offers. There are many other excellent Universities around.

When I studied maths my flatmate wanted to go to Oxford but ended up at our university instead (very middle of the road) - he did his integrated masters with us and then went to Oxford for his PhD - could this be an option for him instead of wasting time on agapyear with no guarantee of entry?

To answer a few questions:
He got offers from universities he applied to. One of them was a 4 year course in Sheffield which was Maths with French. 3rd year in France learning maths. His other A level was in French and he loves it so I thought he'd be happy doing that, but he doesn't want it.

His GCSE results are a mix. He broke his arm the weekend before his GCSEs started and (in his slightly erratic decision making way) refused all school help to accommodate him with a scribe or extra help. It was his dominant hand and so he wrote most of his answers using his left hand 🤦🏻‍♀️ I'm certain he lost marks as some would have been illegible- so he got an 8 in his Maths. This might also affect his chances I would have thought.

Could he look at doing some level 1 maths modules with the OU instead of resitting? I know Oxbridge accept them as entrance qualifications and it would get him started on university level maths, which might be quite good for him too, and make it feel less like a lost year.

My question was less about the offers he received but what he firmed and insured and whether he holds a place for that. Does he actually have the place at Sheffield? If he does and wants to switch to straight Maths they may allow him to switch.

Sorry @SeasonFinale I misunderstood! He took Nottingham as his firm offer but has since updated his UCAS form to reject the place.

Oh that is a shame as Nottingham has a particularly good reputation for Maths. If he has rejected and there is nothing currently in clearing then he will need to reapply.

Will he retake FM in October where it will still count as a first sitting? I am afraid he has put himself in a difficult position but with an A*AA he should get offers. He may want to consider taking some Maths MOOCS on his gap year to keep his skills honed.

Can I just say that the waiting lists now on the NHS for neurodiversity assessments are horrendous - over 18 months in some areas. It may be best to get a private assessment if you can afford it. Otherwise do stress the importance of the assessment to the doctor to try and get him prioritised.

And in our experience significant numbers of students studying maths at Oxbridge are somewhere on spectrum for neurodiversity.

@Dancingdreamer

Can I just say that the waiting lists now on the NHS for neurodiversity assessments are horrendous - over 18 months in some areas. It may be best to get a private assessment if you can afford it. Otherwise do stress the importance of the assessment to the doctor to try and get him prioritised.

And in our experience significant numbers of students studying maths at Oxbridge are somewhere on spectrum for neurodiversity.

Also - not all areas have commissioned an adult ASD diagnostic service. Ours hasn't so there is literally no way for an 18+ year old to get an ASD diagnosis through an NHS provider. There is an adult ADHD diagnostic service and the waiting times are close to two years. Also there is literally no way of being prioritised - the referring GP will just fill in a standard form and send it off with no additional information. Your area might be better served but lots are pretty miserable at the moment.

@AFingerofFudge sorry I am a bit late to this!

I second the advice to see if you can get a diagnosis, universities are (generally) pretty good at supporting students with a wide range of ND conditions, and this might help him make the leap between school and university life.

Usually an A in FM would be a problem for Cambridge, but there is an understanding that the last couple of years have been weird and that they have not sat "real" exams - the STEP grades are much more important.

Has he considered TMUA www.admissionstesting.org/for-test-takers/test-of-mathematics-for-university-admission/. Standard fee entries for this end on 1st October, and a good score will help reduce A level offer grades at some universities (not Cambridge unfortunately). If nothing else, he might enjoy it (I find it more fun than STEP!)

There will be space on the application form to mention some of the issues - there are possibly spaces on both the students and the teacher one? I'm not very up to date with UCAS forms, sorry!

The FAQs on admission here might be helpful - particularly the info on gaps years and adjustment - "Cambridge does participate in UCAS Adjustment. If you have been interviewed in Cambridge, but weren't made an offer, then you sit STEP 2 and 3 anyway, and get grades 1 and 1, you may be eligible for a place through Adjustment. You can find out more about the process and eligibility on the Cambridge Admissions Adjustment page [[https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/adjustment"

He might already know about these, but there are lots of resources for STEP prep on the STEP Support Programme website maths.org/step/

In summary - it wouldn't hurt to try for Cambridge, but do have a think about what sort of insurance course would be acceptable! Cambridge does make more offers than Oxford (STEP is the final hurdle, so offers to places is about 2:1 rather than almost 1:1 for Oxford). This does mean that applicants who don't perhaps tick all the boxes can still get an offer, and if they make the STEP grade they are in!

Just ordered if your ds had progressed his thinking?

In my experience of a few children those who did consistently well at UKMT, minimum Gold and above tended to succeed at Oxbridge. Admittedly this isn't a big sample but something I've noticed over quite a few years.

There are many great Uni's for Maths so hope he will be more open to other places.

[quote Pallando]@AFingerofFudge sorry I am a bit late to this!

I second the advice to see if you can get a diagnosis, universities are (generally) pretty good at supporting students with a wide range of ND conditions, and this might help him make the leap between school and university life.

Usually an A in FM would be a problem for Cambridge, but there is an understanding that the last couple of years have been weird and that they have not sat "real" exams - the STEP grades are much more important.

Has he considered TMUA www.admissionstesting.org/for-test-takers/test-of-mathematics-for-university-admission/. Standard fee entries for this end on 1st October, and a good score will help reduce A level offer grades at some universities (not Cambridge unfortunately). If nothing else, he might enjoy it (I find it more fun than STEP!)

There will be space on the application form to mention some of the issues - there are possibly spaces on both the students and the teacher one? I'm not very up to date with UCAS forms, sorry!

The FAQs on admission here might be helpful - particularly the info on gaps years and adjustment - "Cambridge does participate in UCAS Adjustment. If you have been interviewed in Cambridge, but weren't made an offer, then you sit STEP 2 and 3 anyway, and get grades 1 and 1, you may be eligible for a place through Adjustment. You can find out more about the process and eligibility on the Cambridge Admissions Adjustment page [[https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/adjustment"

He might already know about these, but there are lots of resources for STEP prep on the STEP Support Programme website maths.org/step/

In summary - it wouldn't hurt to try for Cambridge, but do have a think about what sort of insurance course would be acceptable! Cambridge does make more offers than Oxford (STEP is the final hurdle, so offers to places is about 2:1 rather than almost 1:1 for Oxford). This does mean that applicants who don't perhaps tick all the boxes can still get an offer, and if they make the STEP grade they are in![/quote]
Adjustment at Cambridge is only for those that qualify for WP, had interviewed and not received an offer in that application cycle.