Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

University complaints

189 replies

mk45 · 27/07/2021 14:23

My son recently completed a dissertation with a well known Midlands university but got a lower mark than expected. My son took his dissertation without any support or teaching from the course leader. The course leader has emailed my son to confirm he had no contact with my son. He said lockdown was hard for students and staff. This person was also his dissertation supervisor and he did not mark the draft dissertation so my son took the whole two module course without being taught. He had informed them he could not access course materials early on. He raised it three times throughout the course but staff did not follow their own complaints procedure and now the course is finished they want him to put it on a step 1 form. Is this usual for students trying to complete degrees and dissertations during lockdown? I know my son can complete the internal complaints procedure but has anyone experienced this process because his close friend, another student from the same university, recently committed suicide and it might be better to leave it rather than deal with a stressful complaints procedure that won't achieve much. Thanks

OP posts:
mk45 · 28/07/2021 22:29

@Datingandnoideahowto

But if the course leader didn’t know that because he wasn’t communicating with them, how were they supposed to do anything?
The personal tutor knew and the head of department knew. It is in an email they have forwarded so I would be surprised if they hadn't informed the course tutor. I also still have the email I had to send when he accepted the place, which details his health condition. There is no way they didn't know. The tutor definitely knew he had extenuating circumstances. He remarked on it in his dissertation feedback stating my son had an extra two weeks, the maximum allowed.
OP posts:
mk45 · 28/07/2021 22:31

@ineedsun

Cross posted with my comment that you hadn’t answered whether he has SEND
He has a long term health condition. It is a medical condition.
OP posts:
ineedsun · 28/07/2021 22:31

Universities don’t just share information between all staff like they would at school. The students are adults and their information is kept very private unless they choose to share it with more than a particular person.

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 22:31

What did they know? All the circumstances this year? Did he inform them?

mk45 · 28/07/2021 22:45

@Datingandnoideahowto

Because he only talked to the tutor after he got his result? He should have been proactive all year.
That isn't true. He had emailed early on that there were no course materials showing. His tutor didn't reply. His complaint went to the head of department who provided the course materials. After this he did not hear from the course tutor, he received no replies to emails, he couldn't access the online lectures/workshops, he received the wrong information about the synopsis and his draft was not marked. He thinks the tutor didn't like him because he complained. The tutor said lockdown was tough for students and staff. The policies clearly state the tutor should have contact with students, including those not engaging in online sessions and those at risk. There would be emails and feedback comments if he did have contact. Perhaps there would be registers of attendance but as the tutor has already confirmed he had no contact with my son, surely he didn't do his job?
OP posts:
Datingandnoideahowto · 29/07/2021 05:31

You need to sit down and write out a timeline.

Or rather. Your son needs to.

You’re not answering the questions asked (which I understand because you aren’t the student).

As an example. The extenuating circumstances. Did he get the standard 2 weeks you don’t have to ask for. Did he ge t2 weeks because of his existing medical condition on. Or did he submit details (with proof usually required) of all the things that had happened including death of his mate etc and be granted an extension on those grounds.

He should have read that info you found online. Did he ? If not why not.

Exactly why could he not access the course materials? Was it his internet? If so, how did he do the rest of his modules this year.

I’m surprised that if he asked for extenuating circs due to his issues with friend and family member with cancer etc that he didn’t get an extension into the summer term. I’m actually astounded he only got 2 weeks standard with all that.

ineedsun · 29/07/2021 07:19

After this he did not hear from the course tutor, he received no replies to emails, he couldn't access the online lectures/workshops, he received the wrong information about the synopsis and his draft was not marked
So what did he do about these things? Also what is he doing about it all now, or are you just dealing with it?
These things definitely happen but your son is an adult and needs to deal with it. The only reason that I can think of that he needs support and advocacy from another adult is special needs.

Presumably he’s going on to employment, he needs to advocate for himself and not have mum stepping in to deal with it when he’s unhappy about something.

Phphion · 29/07/2021 08:42

What is a Stage 1 complaint? Is it a complaint to be resolved in the department? If so, the issues and likely responses break down like this:

  1. Lack of access to online lectures and workshops. This lack of access meant he also did not receive feedback or supervision. As his department ran these sessions and there was an expectation that he would attend, then the responsibility lies with him. While he correctly alerted the department to his problems, it was his responsibility to seek a solution.
  1. Lack of feedback on his synopsis and his formative assessment (which I assume is the same as the draft you are referring to). Here we need to understand what mechanisms were in place for providing feedback. If the process the department had in place was that a mark (and you would expect some written comments) was given for the synopsis but all other feedback, including that on the formative assessment that did not count towards his mark, was provided during the workshops then the problem is the same as in 1. and is the responsibility of the student. The department could have done something extra for you son, but they are not required to.
  1. Pastoral support. Pastoral support does not usually lie in the hands of the module leader. If a student is not engaging, the module leader's job is to inform the appropriate person in their department, whether this is the student's personal tutor, the Senior Tutor or someone else. The module leader's only role is to apply any mitigations that have been agreed, such as allowing assignments to be submitted later.

Given your son's circumstances, someone should have been contacting him, who was it and did they? From what you say, it does seem that someone was in contact with him and he did not apply for further mitigations. Without knowing the department's processes, we cannot say if they followed them here. And this is what it comes down to with complaints - did the department follow its own processes and did these processes conform to the minimum standards set out by the university or relevant outside bodies?

It does sound like the course and department were not great and could have done more. But 'not great' and 'could have done more' are not grounds for a formal complaint. If your son wants to make a complaint, then it must focus on where there is evidence of processes not being followed. From what you have said, the two questionable areas are mechanisms for providing feedback and mechanisms for providing pastoral support (and possibly mechanisms for resolving complaints). Your son must consider whether these were applied correctly, rather than whether they were what he would have liked.

RoseAndGeranium · 29/07/2021 12:10

@Datingandnoideahowto

You need to sit down and write out a timeline.

Or rather. Your son needs to.

You’re not answering the questions asked (which I understand because you aren’t the student).

As an example. The extenuating circumstances. Did he get the standard 2 weeks you don’t have to ask for. Did he ge t2 weeks because of his existing medical condition on. Or did he submit details (with proof usually required) of all the things that had happened including death of his mate etc and be granted an extension on those grounds.

He should have read that info you found online. Did he ? If not why not.

Exactly why could he not access the course materials? Was it his internet? If so, how did he do the rest of his modules this year.

I’m surprised that if he asked for extenuating circs due to his issues with friend and family member with cancer etc that he didn’t get an extension into the summer term. I’m actually astounded he only got 2 weeks standard with all that.

Yes, I’d be astonished if a two week extension were the maximum or only mitigation available to your son if he put in an extenuating circumstances request detailing the death of his friend and his family member’s illness. In fact I think that’s pretty much impossible in a U.K. university. The two week extension is far more likely to have been a blanket offer to all students during the COVID crisis, or to be a regularly available option for students who experience illness or similar but have no medical evidence to support a claim for a longer extension. In my view it was not an appropriate option for your son. What I would be looking into if I were you would be whether, when he contacted his personal tutor or other pastoral support about his situation, he was advised properly about 1) mental health support available through the university, and 2) what kind of extenuating circumstances mitigations to apply for and how to go about it. If he was not given proper advice about 2), and/or was only directed toward the standard 2 weeks extension, that might help in any appeal. On the academic side I’m afraid I think your case is weaker. As others have said, it sounds as though the course was poorly run and badly updated for online delivery, but it’s very hard to judge that based on the (incompletely reported) experience of one student who may, for multiple reasons, have been unable to engage properly. I can see why you would feel very frustrated and angry about this course based on what your son has told you, but I think you need to take a step back. The course leader would either have been malicious or highly incompetent to have misinformed your son about whether the synoptic would contribute to the final grade. If it was the latter this would have affected multiple students and would likely have been picked up during moderation procedures, which probably leaves us just with malice. But can you be sure this was not a misunderstanding? There are a lot of ways that could happen, e.g. wires crossed about which assignment (synoptic or formative) was under discussion, confusion about whether ‘marked’ meant ‘assessed’ or ‘responded to with detailed feedback’. It also sounds bad that his draft wasn’t marked, but was it handed in on time? If not, how late was it and did he have permission to submit that specific piece of work (as opposed to the dissertation itself) late and a guarantee that he would receive feedback anyway? Did the time at which he handed it in realistically give the marker time to read and respond — for instance, if the draft was only handed in on Friday at 4.30pm and his final deadline dissertation itself was the following Thursday at noon, when exactly could the course leader usefully have read the work and provided feedback? You might think I sound suspicious and nit picking but this kind of thing happens regularly, particularly with students who are struggling. I think you said the course leader was on holiday when the draft was submitted — perhaps he or she had posted somewhere on the course site that this would be the case and that work handed in at that point would not be marked, but your son did not see this notification. Again, this is very common. I myself would usually mark and return the work anyway, but that would be out of kindness, not obligation — academics need time off too — and you don’t know the course leader’s personal circumstances or what that leave was being used for. This is why appropriate use of extenuating circumstances procedures is vital: your son’s situation was such that a longer extension and a renegotiation of terms around the draft would have been a reasonable outcome, but without proper engagement with the proper procedures on your son’s part there would be nothing the course leader could or should do.
I do not agree with some posters who have said special needs or neurodiversity are the only valid reasons for your son to have failed to do more to deal with the IT/internet/communications problems he experienced on this course. Grief and associated mental health issues in combination with isolation would seem to me very likely to hamper efforts to manage problems like this and to diminish motivation generally. I feel for him and I really don’t want to be picking holes in his story, and yes, it is possible that the academic in charge has behaved really poorly in which case the department may be grateful for a complaint on which to act. I’ve seen that before too. But it is very unlikely that an academic complaints procedure will result in any change to your son’s dissertation or degree result which is why I recommend exploring the extenuating circs appeal. At the very least I suggest your son make sure that any academic he asks to act as a referee for him in future is aware that his dissertation mark may have been adversely affected by personal circumstances so that this can be judiciously reflected in your son’s references.
bibliomania · 29/07/2021 17:05

What does your son want out of this? In my university, I'd ask if the desired outcome was another attempt at the dissertation. This would be done through the appeal process rather than the complaints process. Not everyone might want it - the existing degree is withdrawn until he resubmits and it might mean weeks more work only to end up with the same class of degree.

In relation to complaints, it's not safe to draw any conclusions based on a second-hand account, but I'd just comment that it's up to students to contact tutors, not the other way round. Students shouldn't passively wait to be told things and have arrangements put in place for them.

mk46 · 30/07/2021 00:27

@ineedsun

After this he did not hear from the course tutor, he received no replies to emails, he couldn't access the online lectures/workshops, he received the wrong information about the synopsis and his draft was not marked So what did he do about these things? Also what is he doing about it all now, or are you just dealing with it? These things definitely happen but your son is an adult and needs to deal with it. The only reason that I can think of that he needs support and advocacy from another adult is special needs.

Presumably he’s going on to employment, he needs to advocate for himself and not have mum stepping in to deal with it when he’s unhappy about something.

He is dealing with it but I wanted to get advice.
mk46 · 30/07/2021 00:28

Thank you for your help.

mk46 · 30/07/2021 00:31

@bibliomania

What does your son want out of this? In my university, I'd ask if the desired outcome was another attempt at the dissertation. This would be done through the appeal process rather than the complaints process. Not everyone might want it - the existing degree is withdrawn until he resubmits and it might mean weeks more work only to end up with the same class of degree.

In relation to complaints, it's not safe to draw any conclusions based on a second-hand account, but I'd just comment that it's up to students to contact tutors, not the other way round. Students shouldn't passively wait to be told things and have arrangements put in place for them.

I think he feels unfairly treated.
bibliomania · 30/07/2021 16:16

And what would a good outcome look like?

I suspect if his complaint is "I was never told xyz”, the university will be able to point out where students were told xyz. If the complaint is "I didn't get feedback", the question will be "Did you send the required draft to the right person at the right time?"

But this isn't intended as criticism of your son. It's impressive he handed a dissertation in under the circumstances, and doing so to a 2.2 standard sounds like an achievement. Sometimes people get distracted by trying to pin the blame somewhere instead of seeing that life can get in the way and he should be proud of what he did do instead of feeling cheated at what he didn't do.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page