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Higher education

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Original poster

University complaints

189 replies

mk45 · 27/07/2021 14:23

My son recently completed a dissertation with a well known Midlands university but got a lower mark than expected. My son took his dissertation without any support or teaching from the course leader. The course leader has emailed my son to confirm he had no contact with my son. He said lockdown was hard for students and staff. This person was also his dissertation supervisor and he did not mark the draft dissertation so my son took the whole two module course without being taught. He had informed them he could not access course materials early on. He raised it three times throughout the course but staff did not follow their own complaints procedure and now the course is finished they want him to put it on a step 1 form. Is this usual for students trying to complete degrees and dissertations during lockdown? I know my son can complete the internal complaints procedure but has anyone experienced this process because his close friend, another student from the same university, recently committed suicide and it might be better to leave it rather than deal with a stressful complaints procedure that won't achieve much. Thanks

OP posts:
Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 10:39

Did he submit his drafts in the proper format? How did he submit them?

We ask that drafts are submitted through turnitin, for example, but some students email them directly. Some of my colleagues don’t mark these as their view is that they have to follow the letter of the law on how to submit. I do. But I’m soft.

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 10:40

How did he know where and how and when to submit a draft unless he had seen materials that told him when and how to?

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 10:41

I mean. I get shit proposals every year. They get worked on with the students in the first few weeks of semester 1 to craft them into half decent dissertations.

Did he do this?

ThreeWitches · 28/07/2021 10:47

None of this makes much sense. Is he being totally honest with you?

Why could he only access lectures at the library? I genuinely do not understand that.

Also, he must have been made aware of resources if he was able to submit a draft.

Supervisors are usually allocated at the end of second year or beginning of third year through a proposal submittal (on my course anyway). It seems insane he wouldn't have been allocated a supervisor - did he not submit a proposal? It's hardly likely he didn't know about his supervisor because he couldn't access lectures.

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 10:49

As hard as this is for you to hear, I don’t think he’s telling you the whole truth. I’m sorry.

Hdhdjejdj · 28/07/2021 10:50

What? I am not sure I believe this story.

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 10:51

Same as @ThreeWitches we allocate supervisors at the end of second year beaded on the proposal by the student - they are allocated the supervisor most appropriate for their research topic.

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 10:51

*based

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 10:58

In addition. He should have been submitting multiple drafts. His intro and lit review. Methodology. Findings/results. Discussion and conclusion.

Not just one draft.

Original poster
mk45 · 28/07/2021 11:07

@Datingandnoideahowto

As hard as this is for you to hear, I don’t think he’s telling you the whole truth. I’m sorry.
He is telling the whole truth. I have seen the emails. I'm asking about the complaints procedure and if other students faced this situation. He definitely did not know he has a supervisor until his course finished. He completed the whole course and met the course commitments and he received a grade. The course started before lockdown. If anything he should have created more fuss earlier on but there is a clear email chain of the complaints. Some universities appear to have been better than others.
OP posts:
Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 11:12

If he didn’t know he had a supervisor, he couldn’t have submitted a draft.

You don’t want to hear it.

You should work through the questions I asked because you’re still not being clear and those are the sort of questions he will be asked as part of any investigation.

myrtleWilson · 28/07/2021 11:13

If he didn't know who his supervisor was who did he submit his draft to - did he just choose someone? It is all very perplexing

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 11:15

If he couldn’t get access to the course online he couldn’t have submitted via turnitin.

If he didn’t know who his supervisor was he couldn’t have submitted direct to the supervisor.

How the hell did he submit?

How did he know when and what format to submit in if he got no guidance?

Can’t you see this makes zero sense

ThreeWitches · 28/07/2021 11:19

He definitely did not know he has a supervisor until his course finished

Yeah, that's just nonsensical.

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 11:20

And. As I said. He shouldn’t have been submitting just one draft anyway.

Also. When did he submit? I’ve had strident submit a first draft on a Friday at 5 with the actual diss due Monday. And they want corrections done. Again, I’m soft and I’d look at it but colleagues wouldn’t.

ThreeWitches · 28/07/2021 11:20

@Datingandnoideahowto

And. As I said. He shouldn’t have been submitting just one draft anyway.

Also. When did he submit? I’ve had strident submit a first draft on a Friday at 5 with the actual diss due Monday. And they want corrections done. Again, I’m soft and I’d look at it but colleagues wouldn’t.

Agreed. I submitted multiples drafts before handing in the final thing.
Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 11:21

We actually tell students in 2nd year to go and have a look at the research profiles of the academics in the department and consider that when they’re submitting proposals. Because we allocate based on the research interests and experience of the men ever of staff and if they don’t get on with me (for example) there’s no point them doing a topic that’s my area.

Original poster
mk45 · 28/07/2021 11:22

@Datingandnoideahowto

If he didn’t know he had a supervisor, he couldn’t have submitted a draft.

You don’t want to hear it.

You should work through the questions I asked because you’re still not being clear and those are the sort of questions he will be asked as part of any investigation.

He sent it to the course tutor. The course tutor confirmed after the course had finished he was the supervisor. He didn't provide any feedback until he marked the dissertation.
OP posts:
Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 11:22

And student. Not strident. Sorry.

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 11:23

Your son is not telling you the whole story.

I am 52 years of age and I have been at this with my own kids and as an academic for a long time.

He is not telling you the whole truth. I’d bet my last smartie on it.

EduCated · 28/07/2021 11:24

The department also had confirmed he put in three complaints that he couldn't access materials, workshop lectures. The complaints department confirmed staff did not follow the complaints procedure . They now want it on a stage one form.

Did he try to raise three complaints? It would be unusual to go directly to the complaints procedure without first trying to resolve the issue, i.e. your son raises that he is unable to access the zoom calls (?), the department then tried to sort that. So I’m not overly surprised the staff didn’t follow the complaints procedure, on the face of it.

What happened when your son said he was having difficulties accessing resources? And what was the difficulty he was having?

Datingandnoideahowto · 28/07/2021 11:26

The lecturer confirming he was his supervisor does not mean your son wasn’t told who it was.

Honest to god you need to take off your mummy goggles and listen to what experienced academics are telling you.

It simply could not have happened the way he is describing.

Now, it may be that he had a mental health episode and completely disengaged, and there may be reasons behind it, but he is not telling you the whole truth.

ThreeWitches · 28/07/2021 11:27

He sent it to the course tutor. The course tutor confirmed after the course had finished he was the supervisor

So did your son attempt to find out who his supervisor was before the end of his course? Because surely you would email everyone possible early on in third year to find this out.

ivfgottwins · 28/07/2021 11:29

It's been a whilst since I was at uni but dissertations are independent study - there weren't lectures and minimal tutor input - I don't actually recall having any? The only thing that had any input was the initial proposal which was marked? Can't see that the process has changed much in the last 10 years?

Tee20x · 28/07/2021 11:35

This doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. Like PP have said your son would be able to access uni materials whether this be e-library or course specific materials such as lecture slides/recordings and module content using a VPN and university log in details. If he was able to submit via turnitin I am struggling to see how he would be unable to access anything.

You say that your sons dissertation comments say he would have done better if he was able to access the course - are you sure it wasn't something along the lines of accessing a wider range of course material and demonstrating further reading? I.e. did the bare minimum in terms of reading and referencing and then got a low mark?

Like others have said depending on the course, there are either pre-set questions to choose from or the student is able to select an area of their own choosing - a dissertation proposal is then completed which accounts for something along the lines of 10% of the overall grade to ensure that the question, method of study and intended reading etc is suitable for the course.

Personally I don't see how your son could access nothing, didn't know he had a supervisor, didn't have any contact and didn't have any work looked at?

Also in relation to that common practice in some universities is that supervisors won't look at a complete draft but will look at perhaps a chapter.