"Nice" end of year email from lecturer (not)

[Badbadbunny]

DS has just forwarded me an email from one of his lecturers. When he saw the sender/subject he thought it was going to be "happy holidays" kind of email as they officially finish the year this week end and are all packing to go home.

What a shock when he opened it as it's a real old rant.

"Us lecturers have been working flat out all year....."

"I've started marking the end of year exams and am appalled at the standard of answers....."

"We've already lengthened the exam times to allow for technical problems...."

"We've already reduced the pass marks required...."

"You're all going to have to pull your socks up next year if you hope to get a degree....."

This is on the back of none of his lecturers actually being on campus all year, he's had no face to face teaching, seminars, etc all year. Many of the "live" lectures were actually recordings of the previous year with just a "live" introduction for a few minutes at the start from the lecturer. A few pieces of work he submitted before Easter still havn't been marked. Even work that this lecturer has marked hasn't included any feedback, just a "raw" mark with no comments, no suggestions, etc.

He's absolutely gobsmacked that a lecturer has sent that email and him, and lots of others in the groupchats have already complained to the Uni. It's not just this email they're complaining about, it's sparked them to complain about the other aspects too.

What a lovely ending to a truly miserable year for them!

No one is saying that students didnt have a crap year - we are just pointing out that everyone did and that universities didnt always have any other options once Boris mandated everyone to go online.

There is absolutely no reason going online should preclude work being marked and feedback given in a timely basis. Nor should it mean that lecturers are entitled to send round robin emails berating whole cohorts, it isn’t the students fault that universities failed to support their staff sufficiently

@fhbn2025

No one is saying that students didnt have a crap year - we are just pointing out that everyone did and that universities didnt always have any other options once Boris mandated everyone to go online.

I think the point, for some, is that Uni's weren't doing any face to face BEFORE the lockdowns, even when they were allowed to. That's not surprising when some Unis told their teaching staff not to attend campus. Shame they didn't make that clear to the students when they were promising "blended learning" which they knew wouldn't happen. How could it happen if staff were told not to attend campus?? But then again, they would have had empty campus accommodation if they'd told the truth, wouldn't they!

[quote VanCleefArpels]@GlencoraP I think you are slightly splitting hairs given the total amount repayable includes the interest (obviously) then my point still stands.[/quote]
Hardly "splitting hairs" when the interest can easily mount to tens of thousands ON TOP of the £45k loan for 3 years of teaching and maintenance loan.

It's no wonder so few pay it off in full, when that can mean £60k/£70k over their 30 years repayment life.

In fact, you could increase interest to 100% and virtually no one would pay it off in full. But the fact remains that most students will pay tens of thousands off their loans over the 30 years. That's tens of thousands that previous cohorts didn't have to pay. Also, tens of thousands that current cohorts wouldn't have to repay if they'd done online/Open Uni studying instead.

I think the lack of feedback is more of an issue than the somewhat unprofessionally worded email.

As a lecturer, it is my job tell students what they need to do to get a degree, which includes providing feedback. It is not my job to make them happy even if this is at the expense of them getting a degree. If they aren't doing what they need to do to get a degree, then it is my job to tell them that, no matter how little they want to hear it. Otherwise they won't get a degree.

As an example, almost every year we will fail some first year students' assignments for plagiarism. Some of them get quite upset about this, they consider it quite unfair.

But we have provided them with all the guidance they need to not plagiarise, we have talked to them about it, we have explained how important it is, often we have let it go once with clear feedback on the parts that are considered plagiarism. If they then don't bother to do the things we have told them they have to do, we do have to take a harder line, because we have got to get the importance of this through to them, both to those who have plagiarised and to all of them collectively as a cohort. If they plagiarise in their second and third years, they will fail there, when it actually matters and affects their degree classification. In the worst case scenario, they will fail their degree.

We do none of them any favours by allowing this to happen because they might be upset about being told that what they have done is not good enough.

Even in these difficult times, and no matter how sorry we are for the experiences students have had, there are basic standards that have to be met if students want to get a degree. Universities don't, and can't, give out degrees to be nice.

@lovescats3

The situation should be changing in September with everyone double vaxed

It's not going to change that much I fear. The course I'm on as a mature student (and contrary to the general MN lecturer view - we ARE a very interactive, eager to learn and very motivated small cohort and our "lectures" as such really do tend to be a lot of back and forth and fairly flexible in structure with stuff picked up the next time if required) has been told that the uni have decided to leave "some" stuff online - which I can translate as they'll have the art and similar students in, and chuck those of us who have more "book-based" subjects back online.

At least our campaign to move the online teaching onto Teams rather than the steaming turd which is Blackboard Collaborate has been successful!

I'm incredibly motivated, I'm working my arse off because I really WANT a first - but I've learnt much less working through online recorded lectures and seminars with technical glitch after technical glitch and it is sooooo bloody hard to focus when you don't have the changes of room to just break the day up somewhat (our timetable is notoriously jammed). It's been soul destroying at times - but I can honestly state I have watched every lecture, logged on for about 98% of seminars (and watched the replay of the ones I'd missed with pre-warning lecturers about those other commitments) and I am NOT prepared to do another year like this for my degree; and I'm looking at taking the year out if needs be - I really don't want to do it, but I don't have it in me for another year of "blended" bullshit.

I fear ours will actually be WORSE next year as we've been told we won't have blocks of time on campus but it'll be some hideous mix of a couple of hours and then expected to go home to log on for online stuff... except timetabling work on the assumption we can all be at home within an hour and a lot of us commute in and that's not viable.

As for the email - yeah it's shitty in tone and is probably a product of the lecturer's views on the situation as well cos it's been crappy all round (at one point we had a lecturer recording a lecture locked in the bathroom with the laptop balanced on the laundry basket... we know because it fell off mid-recording and she's the sort who would tell us!)... mind you - we got emails this time last year informing us of the course leader's progress in working through Grays Anatomy! (I love our course staff)

@user1497207191 we did try to do as many f2f seminars as possible but with all the social distancing rules, we just couldn't offer it to everyone. Whilst the lecturers were told not to come in, our PhD student who normally run all the seminar groups anyway were all on campus but the 2m rule really scuppered our ability to run them

Also 2nd years had their 1st year disrupted as well from March onwards

Students don't ask questions in lectures and honestly, I dont have time to fully answer their questions even if they do as we have quite a lot of material to cover. I mean, I do of course throw a few out there to make it feel a tad interactive but that not the point of a lecture - that's what seminars are for

Yes they do? I was in higher education for 7 years and definitely sat in enough lectures (of 70 - 100ish students) to say they do! Mostly 'I didn't understand what you meant by that' type questions, which you definitely can't substitute for a video recording.
Maybe your attitude of 'not enough time' comes across?

He needs to complain. How horrible

The situation MUST change from September onwards. Students can't suffer another year of this. Fair enough if large lectures can't go ahead at first, but all the other face to face, such as tutorials, seminars, etc NEEDS to start again as normal right from week 1 in September/October. All adults would have had the chance to be double jabbed by then, so there's no excuse not to be back to normal for most teaching sessions. Likewise, all the usual student support services, such as IT support, MH support, library, etc must be back to normal with staff etc on campus and doing whatever F2F support is needed.

Must do this; must do that. I'm sure HEIs will get right on it.

ah seeing as there will be no f2f lectures at my uni next year and Freshers week will be online, there is no must about it. Having said that I cant wait to get back on campus

That is an incredibly unprofessional email. Your child should formally complain.

That said, most academics have been working incredibly hard to provide great teaching and help students as much as they can. My DH has worked 80 hour weeks most of the year trying to sort out the godawful mess that remote teaching and examining has caused. It has not been at all enjoyable, and many have gone sick due to the stress of trying to do that while overworked, under paid and homeschooling their own kids.

Universities will do what is appropriate based on government guidance and the virus situation in each individual university and its surrounding community.

I am not sure where the idea has come from that all universities really want to continue teaching online. It has been catastrophic financially for universities, endangered their already tricky relationship with government, been mostly terrible for their staff (who are now also facing the prospect of losing their jobs due to the financial difficulties this situation has caused), and, with the best will in the world, not provided the best teaching and wider university experience for students.

There have been no winners from this situation, why would universities want it to continue for any longer than is necessary to keep people safe?

@VanCleefArpels

So you don’t think that students should be told that the standard of work is not up to snuff?

I think it would be reasonable to consider the possibility that if the standards have dropped across the board this year that might be due to zero face-to-face teaching and lecturing, so the lack of cross-fertilisation of ideas, lack of Q&As at the end of sessions, lack of student engagement with each other and discussions that naturally normally take place in cafes after lectures or in libraries have had an effect. As has the crippling isolation resulting in depression, loneliness and difficulty in staying motivated.

Chastising a bunch of students you've never even met is not the way forward. Nor is the shit suggestion many unis are proposing, that lectures and tutorials stay online for another year. I could weep for this generation. They have been shafted academically.

@user1497207191 Absolutely. So many of my friends' first years had an amazing time, socialising to the utmost extent (and, let's face it, beyond - but who can blame them?) that they were allowed. But my son has autism and was really looking forward to a "fresh start" which didn't happen - only grinding loneliness!

I have just submitted my final batch of marks and feedback for this academic year.

I won't be sending any pull-your-socks-up emails. There's no need. The standard of submitted work was on a par with the work submitted pre covid. Slightly higher, in fact.

@Cowbells Well said. I agree with every word
This thread has been full of lecturers telling us how difficult it has been working in these circumstances. (And it has) Yet the lecturer in the opener seems unable to extrapolate these difficulties into the possibility that students may also be suffering, be disengaged, and unsupported and possibly not receiving quality lectures and materials which enable high exam performance.
Instead apparently it is the students fault
I would love to know which uni this is please share opener.
And incredibly there are still unis who would like to carry on with this online model next year (even when restrictions are removed) why would they? It makes no sense , students hate it lecturers hate it it’s bad for business , it produces rubbish results by the look of it . Where is the benefit if the health risk of face to face lectures is removed/minimised and social distancing rules abandoned.

And incredibly there are still unis who would like to carry on with this online model next year (even when restrictions are removed) why would they? It makes no sense , students hate it

I have been lucky enough to resume face-to-face teaching in since Easter. I asked all the students who attended may sessions what they thought of online lectures (specifically).

The responses were overwhelmingly in favour of them.

Excuse the gibberish. Ignore the extra "in" and, of course, "may" should be "my".

“Pulling your socks up” isn’t exactly constructive criticism is it?

I’ve sent a whole cohort email to one of my year groups after a rather ropey assignment once. But it was more about repeating that in 2nd year they needed to start critiquing/writing at level 5 for higher marks. That they’d had a (live, online) lecture in this and they could watch the recording if necessary, look at the level 5 guides and examples I’d provided and also seek library academic workshops.

Which I think is more helpful than saying “pull your socks up” (if that’s what was said).

Nor do I complain to the students about my workload, nor do I recycle previous lectures. And I mark all work in a 15 day turn around.

So I’ve no issue with a whole group email…but this actual one doesn’t sound good.

@Etulosba

And incredibly there are still unis who would like to carry on with this online model next year (even when restrictions are removed) why would they? It makes no sense , students hate it

I have been lucky enough to resume face-to-face teaching in since Easter. I asked all the students who attended may sessions what they thought of online lectures (specifically).

The responses were overwhelmingly in favour of them.

I know. It's the same in DCs unis. They want online lectures. But they don;t know what they are missing. They don't realise how much they lose socially and intellectually by having it all online. It's up to unis who know the difference, to offer the lectures live too. All lectures are filmed these days anyway so students who don't want to or can;t attend in person can still watch them. But nothing beats the shared experience - the ripple of laughter in the lecture hall, the collective intake of breath at a new insight or revelation; hearing a stranger react the same way you do to a pice of information and realising you have something in common, and maybe following up on it with a chat. This stuff is not convenient, but it is priceless.

My issue isn't with my department staff who (with one exception who is ALWAYS an exception) are bloody fantastic and have really gone above and beyond for us, and have been near tears when the technology's failed and scuppered plans yet again - but the uni I do feel sold us a lie to get us to register to carry on this year and not defer about how the blend of learning was going to be and how high-quality campus provision was going to continue etc etc.

We got our timetables (the day before lectures started) to find that we had 3 hours a fortnight on campus and that the campus experience had been made so miserable, with so many facilities closed, that no one fucking wanted to be there anyway. Add in the most ridiculous signage I have ever seen (including the charming "get ready to squirt... mask up now" 10 signs approaching the library) and it was just awful. Then we realised the fucking horror that was every single lecture for the week being uploaded at 4pm on a Thursday and Blackboard needing to go lie down in a darkened room to get over the trauma of that as it all crashed... and then that deadline slipped so badly that we were finding 4 hours of lectures to watch before a seminar all uploaded the morning of the seminar. It has just been shit and I'm now swimming through treacle trying to get my final presentation for the year finished, recorded and uploaded.

The only blessing has been they've finally accepted Blackboard Collaborate is fucking shit.

[quote VanCleefArpels]@user1497207191 I find the hyperbole about what students are “paying” for a bit tiresome. Very few are actually paying. Very few will actually repay the loans they have taken out in order to cover the costs - which actually don’t cover the costs of providing the course.[/quote]
It's very worrying indeed if "very few" graduates are making student loan repayments. It means they're earning less than average wages!

In reality, someone earning a pretty average wage (for a graduate) of £45,000 p.a. will repay about £50,000 by the time their loan is written off (30 years), so they won't have fully repaid it due to the extortionate interest rate, assuming they've borrowed an average of £15k per year to pay for their university years.

That's awful, especially considering that students didn't have to pay for tuition fees in previous years and many got proper grants for living costs, not loans.

Lecturers, parents and students are saying here how awful it's been.I think government don't care as students had paid already.The government should refund students and help universities financially.My big worry is that things won't go back to normal in September so what can we do about that ?email your local MP and Michele Donelan Universities Minister , Shadow Minister Matthew Weston and Daisy Cooper of Lib Dems to get a question tabled urgently before summer parliamentary recess.We owe it to the next generation to help them.