DS 2022 entry - minimum maintenance loan etc

[HazyDaisy123456]

DS year 12 is a fairly bright lad at a local GS doing fairly well in maths, further maths, physics and ok at a forth subject (but unlikely to achieve A*|A in this). We don’t know his predicted grades as yet and expect to hear this in the next week or two.

DS says he definitely wants to go uni and we are thinking probably to study maths, physics (a combination of the two) or an engineering type degree (to fit with his A levels) but seems disinterested in courses and Uni’s at the moment.

We live in the north and his school are saying he should put in an Oxbridge application (but I am worried his personal statement may be lacking as he doesn’t have many interests and doesn’t have a part time job or a creative way to make money etc. Unlike some of his peers).

Also he will only receive the minimum Maintenance loan due to our household income so we will have to heavily subsidise him and then do the same for his other sibling a year later. By which time DH will be 60.

Any advice on how to encourage him to properly engage in the process sooner rather than later, how best to narrow down choices of courses and institutions and in some Uni’s its complicated further as you seem to have to apply to a particular halls. It seems very difficult when all open days are virtual and with him having so much school work and seemingly little motivation.

If on minimum ML how much did/do you contribute? School have said to him Oxford and Cambridge halls and food outlets are heavily subsidised so are no more expensive than elsewhere is this true or only if you have a very low household income?

Thanks all

Most schools start to build it up towards end year 12/early year 13 and suggest they research unis/courses and draft a ps over the summer for the earlier deadlines - Oxbridge, Medicine, Vet school. Peer pressure normally kicks in and maybe recent ex pupils visit to give a feel for their student lives. Try not to worry about ps overly, discussing how and why they are interested is more important, with examples of reading, online courses, any projects they have done outside the curriculum. Are there any taster days or courses, uni open days, either real or virtual, he could attend?

Don't worry about the lack of job from a PS point of view. No one cares. What unis want is genuine interest in the subject. Maths and Physics are often undersubscribed, so offers made to pretty much all who apply.

That said, Oxbridge will want to see evidence of serious commitment to the subject (olympiads etc). If he's a bit meh about the process now is he really ready for the intensity that is Oxbridge?

Loan wise many parents make up the difference between basic and full loan - so £4000 a year. Some choose to pay accommodation costs and let offspring use the basic loan for everything else. Start saving....

Would an engineering degree apprenticeship interest him? Very competitive with a salary alongside gaining a degree.

www.dysoninstitute.com/

Thanks both. Thats what we were thinking @titchy.

DS thoroughly enjoys school and really enjoys competing academically. He has just sat A level mocks to inform his predicted grades and is also learning to drive at the moment. He got a low A star grade at further maths but we don’t know his other grades just yet. So he’s had/ having a hectic time revising and recuperating also seems to be having another growth spurt so seems more tired than usual.

‘Loan wise many parents make up the difference between basic and full loan - so £4000 a year. Some choose to pay accommodation costs and let offspring use the basic loan for everything else. Start saving...’

So a massive financial commitment and a major change in lifestyle for ourselves but we don’t have much choice.

Do you know if halls and food are subsidised at Oxbridge or is that just a read herring? He listened into Durham virtual opening day today with DH but didn’t seem that enthused and of course its not the same as physically going to Campus.

So a massive financial commitment and a major change in lifestyle for ourselves but we don’t have much choice.

You must have been expecting it though? This hasn't just come out of the blue

Do you know if halls and food are subsidised at Oxbridge or is that just a read herring?

They have a website you know...

Yes thanks at tetchy/titchy but its a minefield as lots of choices of halls and I know nothing about any of them.

Costs here:

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/colleges/do-I-pay-to-live-in-my-college

Compare to catered accommodation at other universities and that will tell you if they're subsidised.

Unless he's super keen and committed though it's a moot point isn't it?

If he might be interested in engineering this is a good overview of what is engineering

I looked at this with ds when he first stated out looking as he had no idea how broad engineering is. He used it to narrow down what he was interested in then looked at them in further detail/read some books/joined somevwebinars/looked at uni courses. It might ignite an interest or let him know engineering isn't for him and to look elsewhere instead.

Thanks both. Have forwarded DS that link and I had found that link after my kick up the bum from you earlier tetchy.

DD is at a catered Oxford College. Her fees are approximately £1500- £1800 per term. She has to get her own breakfast & lunch, either in College or from Tesco.

You can't have a term-time job at Oxford or Cambridge. I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't top up their DC's minimum loan to around £9k (the equivalent of the max loan). As for subsidies,they very from College to College. Some pay for books, some pay for sport kit and others pay for nothing. She gets a certain amount of "free" accommodation due to out of term commitments.

Oxbridge isn't remotely interested in part time jobs, DofE awards or sporting achievements. If your DS is serious about applying, he should start looking at their websites now for ideas on how to show his interest in his chosen subject asap. He would almost certainly need to take admission tests at the end of October as well as submit his UCAS form by mid October.

Oxbridge halls tend to be better value than many others, but with less choice. Most unis offer catered, self catered, shared, modern or older, on campus, off campus, large and small but you usually have to live out after first year in private rentals. Durham has a reputation for being expensive.

Some unis offer scholarships if you exceed entry grades (Lancaster and Kent are two) but you need to balance that against the desirability of the course and type of uni.

Personal statement should show his passion for the subject, not a part time job CV necessarily.

Just because his school have suggested Oxford, doesn't mean he has to want to go there. It really is quite a different experience from the overwhelming majority of universities. Yes, it makes you highly employable, but it still doesn't make it the right choice for everyone. However, it is obviously better for him to make an informed decision, so he needs to investigate a bit further and then decide no on facts and actual feelings rather than prejudice based on 'an impression'. Why not look at this sort of site.

At the other end of the spectrum there are quite a lot of really reputable companies that offer degree apprenticeships in engineering, if that is the road he wants to go down Siemans just as one example.

@Hoghgyni

DD is at a catered Oxford College. Her fees are approximately £1500- £1800 per term. She has to get her own breakfast & lunch, either in College or from Tesco.

You can't have a term-time job at Oxford or Cambridge. I'm not aware of anyone who doesn't top up their DC's minimum loan to around £9k (the equivalent of the max loan). As for subsidies,they very from College to College. Some pay for books, some pay for sport kit and others pay for nothing. She gets a certain amount of "free" accommodation due to out of term commitments.

Oxbridge isn't remotely interested in part time jobs, DofE awards or sporting achievements. If your DS is serious about applying, he should start looking at their websites now for ideas on how to show his interest in his chosen subject asap. He would almost certainly need to take admission tests at the end of October as well as submit his UCAS form by mid October.

- Surely, there are some students from the ‘North’ who are there with a maximum loan from SLC - regardless of which sector they’ve been educated in?

ProggyMat of course there are students there from all over the country who get the maximum maintenance loan. Oxford has very generous bursaries which are given automatically to students who get the max loan. However, the OP specifically asked about topping up the minimum maintenance loan, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

FWIW we live in a POLAR4 area & it's certainly not in the North.

But, the OP mentioned she was from the North?
And other posters gave advice which ‘went awry’ for want of a better phrase in respect of how much a financial ‘top up ‘ would be needed?
POLAR an ACORN measures are pertinent regardless of location.
BUT, for other Yr12 parents reading this thread the notion of having to ‘top up’ loans would be scary?

@ProggyMat, OP said she's from the north in her background info, yes, but how is that relevant to student finance? I live in the north and my sons' loans have been assessed on parental income like everyone else's, regardless of where they live. Am I missing something?

@LoonvanBoon as do I
How far North are you?
And yes, of course SLC maintenance grants are based on ‘household’ income
But, given there is a wealth of studies that show that Northern working class ‘ students ( read those students that the ‘household won’t be in the position to ‘top up’ maintenance loans) are reluctant to apply to Oxbridge I found it quite scary that someone would say that their DC didn’t know any peers who didn’t have a ‘top up’ from the ‘household’

But @ProggyMat, isn't the point that students from lower income backgrounds, whether from the north or not, and whether going to Oxbridge or not, are entitled to more than the minimum maintenance loan. I'm afraid I don't have the exact figures to hand, but if household income is no more than around £25,000, the student will receive the full loan which is not supposed to need topping up. They will probably also be eligible for various bursaries.

The OP has already said that her son is only entitled to the minimum loan, so that means their family income is relatively high - around £60,000 + I think - which is why they will be expected to make up the loan amount to the same amount students from lower income backgrounds receive.

Accommodation costs at Oxford seemed relatively inexpensive when I last checked, certainly when compared with some other universities (Durham's and Bristol's, for example, seem quite pricey, so it might well be harder to manage on the maximum loan amount at those universities).

how to encourage him to properly engage in the process sooner rather than later

Encourage him to aim high, frame whatever you say in certainty that you know he has the ability to do well at Oxbridge (or wherever); and you are proud of his achievements*

*assuming you don't have a lurking underachiever DC at home so no sibling rivalry to manage

I told my high achiever to please choose somewhere within 4 hours drive of us. So that helped with some of the choosing. Are UCAS fairs not running at all? Is the college not trying to engage your son in how to choose a course -- my (underachiever) DS is getting repeated hassle for not planning university. Do you know the strategy of aiming for 1 high (Oxbridge), one aspiration (high but not very competitive, say Durham), 1-2 medium (likely can achieve) & one acceptable but not too competitive Uni choice (in case exam results all disappoint)?

DD got a minimal loan. Is costing us about £6000/yr extra for living costs, because she is at a London uni.

UCAS Discovery Week next week, may be useful?
www.ucas.com/events/ucasdiscovery-week-393976

Thanks all yes being from the north isn’t really that relevant I suppose (except its probably to far and not really appropriate to do a day trip to Oxford or Cambridge and quite a few other Uni cities down south in the current pandemic situation. We looked at Durham virtually today as its not too far away and sounds fairly prestigious just to try and get him interested but as said here the costs for halls seem very high.

DS will only receive the minimum ML due to our household income. DS is a high achiever and DH is close to retirement age/pension age as we had DC late in life and in approx 1 years time DD will also be looking fo go to Uni. She is of more middling academic ability.