DS 2022 entry - minimum maintenance loan etc

[HazyDaisy123456]

DS year 12 is a fairly bright lad at a local GS doing fairly well in maths, further maths, physics and ok at a forth subject (but unlikely to achieve A*|A in this). We don’t know his predicted grades as yet and expect to hear this in the next week or two.

DS says he definitely wants to go uni and we are thinking probably to study maths, physics (a combination of the two) or an engineering type degree (to fit with his A levels) but seems disinterested in courses and Uni’s at the moment.

We live in the north and his school are saying he should put in an Oxbridge application (but I am worried his personal statement may be lacking as he doesn’t have many interests and doesn’t have a part time job or a creative way to make money etc. Unlike some of his peers).

Also he will only receive the minimum Maintenance loan due to our household income so we will have to heavily subsidise him and then do the same for his other sibling a year later. By which time DH will be 60.

Any advice on how to encourage him to properly engage in the process sooner rather than later, how best to narrow down choices of courses and institutions and in some Uni’s its complicated further as you seem to have to apply to a particular halls. It seems very difficult when all open days are virtual and with him having so much school work and seemingly little motivation.

If on minimum ML how much did/do you contribute? School have said to him Oxford and Cambridge halls and food outlets are heavily subsidised so are no more expensive than elsewhere is this true or only if you have a very low household income?

Thanks all

We live in the North and did a day visit to London unis when kids where looking not that hard.

Think your son needs to work out what he wants to do first then worry about which uni.

Having two kids at uni they knock a massive £1500 of your income.

Currently have two who've just finished their first years. Eldest took a gap year.

Thanks @somewhereovertherain it is perhaps doable but maybe not really advisable in a pandemic when one of us were on the shielding list. Also I wasn’t talking about London but more Oxford and Cambridge.

I knew that but just showing it's possible. We live in Cumbria.

Definitely worth visiting if you can, my DDS both knocked off unis when meeting lecturers and seeing facilities

My dd decided not to apply to Oxbridge, because she didn't want the intensity of it. Even if you have the ability, it's not for everyone.

She only went on a couple of visits before applying. She attended offer holder days and that's how she made her mind up. One well-regarded place she hated. It was love at first sight for her uni city and she is still very happy there.

If you have already worked out that your household income means that your DS will only be entitled to the minimum maintenance loan, did you also notice the bit about being able to opt for assessment of the current year's income, rather than that of the last fully completed tax year, if your income will have fallen significantly (the threshold is a reduction of 15%, I think)? Would that help the loan / contribution balance in your DS's case?

Gosh that's useful info about the 15% fall, I did not know that was an option. Info here. Though I think our year on year fall is more like 10%, anyway.

I believe DD will get the maximum 'benefit' of our declining income in her 3rd year, and after that our income may spike up again, anyway. She's already getting more maintenance loan for 2nd year than she did for first year. It's less than ? £1000 increase, but she'll happily have that.

@HazyDaisy123456

DS year 12 is a fairly bright lad at a local GS doing fairly well in maths, further maths, physics and ok at a forth subject (but unlikely to achieve A*|A in this). We don’t know his predicted grades as yet and expect to hear this in the next week or two.

DS says he definitely wants to go uni and we are thinking probably to study maths, physics (a combination of the two) or an engineering type degree (to fit with his A levels) but seems disinterested in courses and Uni’s at the moment.

We live in the north and his school are saying he should put in an Oxbridge application (but I am worried his personal statement may be lacking as he doesn’t have many interests and doesn’t have a part time job or a creative way to make money etc. Unlike some of his peers).

Also he will only receive the minimum Maintenance loan due to our household income so we will have to heavily subsidise him and then do the same for his other sibling a year later. By which time DH will be 60.

Any advice on how to encourage him to properly engage in the process sooner rather than later, how best to narrow down choices of courses and institutions and in some Uni’s its complicated further as you seem to have to apply to a particular halls. It seems very difficult when all open days are virtual and with him having so much school work and seemingly little motivation.

If on minimum ML how much did/do you contribute? School have said to him Oxford and Cambridge halls and food outlets are heavily subsidised so are no more expensive than elsewhere is this true or only if you have a very low household income?

Thanks all

My eldest daughter, did maths further maths physics and chemistry. She did the oxford route and got as far as interviews. She doesn't have a job, but did things like online MOOC's, podcasts, and work experience. Oxford is only one of 5 choices, so might as well go for it :) He will need to do a PAT test if he does the physics route though. She had other choices, other unis she loved and is now at Lancaster (which has a great engineering building there).So when it comes to choosing unis, do lots of homework and research on them and a campus visit. Oxford is heavily subsidised and accommodation cheaper as your only paying for 8 weeks a term (and you have to move out every term for the holidays)

The way you could work out finances is this:
Accommodation fees - maintenance loan = balance you have to subsidise for him. This is paid termly so what ever balance you have, you divide that by 3 and make sure that's given to him October, January and April.
Then your other costs per month:
her maintenance loan just covers her accommodation, so we pay £300 per month for her upkeep.

We also have DD2 just done gcse's so will also have to pay the same for her as well/. Any high earners have to subsidise more, but thats how they work it out.

Whether itbis Oxford or not if he is entitled to only the minimum loan there is the expectation that parents would be contributing to top up to the maximum loan amount. How have you missed Martin Lewis on this point? If the reality is you can't then your DS may need to look at a part time job now to save up and during holidays etc.

@HazyDaisy123456 how is he getting on with all of this? Oxbridge isn't the be all and end all and will require extra work with sitting entrance tests, interviews and getting his UCAS completed for at least the Oxbridge part by 15th October this year as opposed to the normal UCAS deadline of 15th January.

No one really cares about part time jobs they want to see enthusiasm for the subject so what is he doing outside of his A levels that shows he is willing to give up his free time doing whatever he does to do physics/maths? Online courses? Summer schools? TED talks on YouTube anything on YouTube. What did he find interesting, what did he learn, where did this lead him next? When you are looking at almost £15k per year with minimum loan £4422 and tuition fees of £9250 you really need to want to do it.

When it comes to Oxbridge they may say that they want AAA but in reality they are taking 40+% at 3x A or better students. They are massively oversubscribed with the top achievers, they take their pick.

Are there any good universities local to you that he could live at home for? Student bank accounts usually allow for £1000 overdraft each year so £3k when he is finished if you are unable to contribute much but you will be spending slightly less with him not being at home so you could funnel that money his way.

Some universities like Warwick have all their costs for halls very openly on their website and easy to see which range from, if memory serves, £77 pwk to £198 pwk.

I do think that all parents of year 12 students should be brought into a sixth form evening where they play the Martin Lewis video of him talking to year 12s about student finance. My sister, although 3 years older than me went to uni at the same time I did and it crippled my parents financially. I knew uni wasn't a free ride hence saving up for our children. I sent the video link to friends of mine when their children were in year 10 to prepare them as they hadn't been to uni themselves and didn't know how much the government expect you to contribute.

First years are always expensive because of student accommodation costs however house sharing is much cheaper is the subsequent years.

Thanks @JennyTractorRiderGo. I saw the Martyn Lewis video thanks. DS is doing 4 A levels (we still haven’t got his predicted grades just yet as his year are working from home again) he did an EPQ project with a maths theme during lockdown at the end of year 11.

He is also doing maths workshops to prepare him for the entrance tests in both maths and physics with school (giving up his lunch one day a week for one of them and spending an hour and a half on the other one virtually on an evening).

He said he is going to do some further reading in the hols.

No decent universities near us Durham is the nearest and it sounds more expensive than others places.

He isn’t any further forward with his uni and course choices and he may or may not be doing enough. I have nagged him to spend some time on this to no avail.

Would Warwick be any close for you (for maths in particular).

He could always take a gap year and then apply with grades in hand, though this isn't recommended these days for maths.

Thanks I have read about Warwick. Unfortunately its 200 and odd miles away.

&@HazyDaisy123456 in terms of costs certainly for DS1 Cambridge was by far the cheapest accommodation of any; certainly around 3k less than Durham which was his insurance choice. He was at a very old, very central, and clearly very wealthy college but accommodation and food cheap, huge room in all three years, bearing in mind at most unis the vast majority won’t be in halls after the first year, sports clubs free, printing free, significant college library, open to all grants for overseas travel for seemingly fairly tenuous course links, and most important of all free weekend parking for parents (to go into Cambridge not necessarily meet up with DS ).

Oxbridge is not for everyone, and our DCs are fortunate that the UK has a lot of high quality, even some which are not in the Really Gullible, oops I mean Russell Group. Cost wise though Oxbridge is prob hard to beat.

Accommodation costs do vary massively between Unis, and between those really quite close to each other. DS2 ending y2 paid just over 6k in year one, full en-suite, large kitchen and communal space, that is closer to 7k now. DS3 who fingers crossed going this Autumn likely between the 5.5 and 6.5k mark.

Your DS needs to do some research, to work out what subject he wants and where his predicted grades could get him. Don't forget to look into going North over the border to Scotland, eg Edinburgh.

If going somewhere a long way away think about how transport could work. Some accommodation is full year, some is academic year only. So what would you do with items over the summer?
a) transport back and forwards by car
b) put in storage (how would it get there), and travel by cheaper coach, or train
c) some other option

Would be a shame to rule out otherwise great options purely on distance unless there are equally great ones closer to home. So probably no benefit going all the way to eg Portsmouth, but there may well be benefit for Cambridge, Oxford or Warwick.

I am mystified why you are saying there are no decent unis near you. If Durham is near you then you will either be near Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester all RG unis.

Does your son want to go to uni near home or do you want him to?

We topped up DDs maintenance loan each year to pay for her accommodation then sent her £200 a month throughout the year. We had saved up for this since she was 5, so had enough to cover the costs just about.

@HazyDaisy123456 Durham is expensive because it is rated number 5 in the UK so again a sought after university. As you have said you are near to Durham that does open up Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester or over the border Edinburgh and St Andrews etc they should be relatively close in terms of travel.

First year is always expensive, they want all freshers on campus or in their student accommodation no matter which university. However house shares for subsequent years are much cheaper. You can live cheaply, there are many YouTube videos on people cooking for themselves with a very limited budget. Don't buy clothes unless he absolutely needs them and don't go out drinking every night. This is about budgeting. Like I said he can access a £1k overdraft every year and his term time will be about 30 weeks so not 52.

I can only comment on Cambridge as that was where Ds applied but their accommodation is cheaper but they house you for 3 years so no choice on cost but it is also very full on with short terms. Cambridge or Oxford is just one slot on the UCAS you cannot apply to both in the same year.

He has the summer to work out what to write on his personal statement although for early entry (Oct 15th) when Ds was in year 12 they had to have their first draft in by the end of June. Your son probably has access to UniFrog which should help guide him through what to write and see what he has already.

Thanks all. DS isn’t sure where he wants to study yet. He definitely isn’t limiting his options to near home but it would make sense not to be more than say 2 1/2 hours away if poss for the logistics of storing/transporting things etc. He is still thinking along the lines of Maths, Physics or engineering.

He did some mocks recently and his grade for all for his A levels were A* A, A, A (but not sure whether this forms the basis of his predicted grades or whether this is something different) and no idea what grade he will receive on his EPQ.

Think his first choice is Cambridge (due to a presentation they had at school) and unsure re other choices of Uni.

I did a day trip from Liverpool to Southampton for an interview. First train in the morning, last one back. My only luxury as a 17 Yr old on Lime St Station lashed out the last of my pocket money on a taxi. There wasn't a day return as they didn't think people would do it. But they do.

@newtb - yes I know it can be done. I was on the shielded list and the problem is we could travel X amount of miles but you can’t yet attend any physical open days to see the facilities or look at the halls etc etc. So it would be a long expensive trip to not be able to do very much.

The first year is on the face of it expensive at Durham but bear in mind that there are no food costs as colleges are fully catered and no transport as everywhere is walkable . Plus for those on the maximum loan there is a Durham bursary scheme . Rent after the first year is not so expensive

I am afraid if you are only eligible for the minimum then the assumption is that you can afford to pay. As regards not being able to work , this is true in term time but Oxbridge has very short terms so it is possible to work in the holiday

York?

It is odd to be approaching choice of university from a cost perspective! If you are very concerned about cost, the universities in the North generally have best value accommodation, for example Newcastle, which is an excellent university.

It is great that his school is offering to prepare him for entrance exams - most state schools don't, but before he throws his heart into it, you should be aware that AAAA are very good grades in general, but not for Cambridge. For STEM, their standard offer is AAA and the majority of people applying will have 3 or 4 As predicted. If he is not predicted 2 x A* + A he may not get an interview.