BSc Vs MSc data science

[BuffySummersReportingforSanity]

I am in the middle of a Level 4 Apprenticeship course on data analysis, funded and supported by my employer and enjoying it very much. I already have undergrad and master's degrees in other disciplines from academic universities.

I now have the option of either continuing my course onto a BSc data science with the same provider, or applying for and completing an MSc apprenticeship with another uni/provider. Neither uni is ranked as one of the most prestigious academically, but a fully funded degree I can do alongside well-paid work is not to be sneezed at, and if I really wanted to chase academic prestige on this subject, I'd have to go and do a full time MSc at one of the Russell Group and pay out of pocket, which I'm not really in a position to do right now.

Both courses would take me about the same amount of time. WWYD, BSc or MSc?

I would be seriously wondering why this valuable apprenticeship hadn’t gone to an 18 year old who had not already done a degree and a masters. Do what you want and makes best sense for you.

I would be seriously wondering why this valuable apprenticeship hadn’t gone to an 18 year old who had not already done a degree and a masters.

Maybe because they hadn't asked for it and made a business case as to why it was an extremely valuable investment. There is a huge need for people at all levels to develop these skills. I still have my previous role and am not taking up an entry level job; there's no limit on the number of people who can study the course, which is all virtual, and my employer is far from using up their whole apprenticeship levy budget.

I'm trying to figure out what is best for me and my career, degree-wise.

Apprenticeships are not just for 18 year olds! MSc, as you'll be more highly qualified.

I'm leaning towards the MSc, I guess?

Full disclosure though, it's with Anglia Ruskin University. No insult to those who have studied or worked there, I've known some great course conveners there, but there's no denying it's not exactly got a top flight reputation.

Might not be the highest ranked uni but it's better than no degree.
And a free Bsc is better than paying for an MSc (which I think are the options or have I misunderstood).

Understanding (possibly wrongly) that they're both sponsored by your employer, do the MSc. That's the cohort you'll be competing against for jobs in the future - people who've done an MSc. A good way to elevate an MSc from a less prestigious university is to ruthlessly pursue a dissertation that you can publish in an academic journal. You should be able to do something awesome given your access to your employer's data.

No, I can do it free either way. The choices are: free BSc with, I think, slightly better uni and a learning delivery provider I know to be good, plus a seamless transfer as I've already effectively done the first 18 months of the course, or free MSc with a slightly worse uni, don't know the quality of the teaching and starting afresh so maybe bit bumpier, but - MSc.

My diamond shoes are too tight, I know.

As you already have an undergraduate degree, even if unrelated, I'd go for the MSc, shorter and presumably more specialist.

A BSc is entry level for an 18 year old. It’s just a great shame that thousands of apprenticeships don’t go to 18 year olds. They go to employed adults who already have a degree. You can justify it for your career but overall it’s not what most people thought degree apprenticeships were all about. The pr was all about an alternative route for 18 year olds to get a degree and work at the same time. I think the employers should all have a rethink especially as the number of apprenticeships has halved in the last couple of years. Yes, I do understand it’s about what’s best for you.

Oh do the MSc then, especially as you already have a degree. The higher qualification will outweigh the worse uni from a prospects point of view. But have a look at sites like the student room and get some feedback on what teaching, etc is like for that particular course.

I'm not keeping an 18yo from having that place, PresentingPercy. My doing that course won't affect my employer or any other offering an apprenticeship role to an 18yo. In any case, I will most likely go for the MSc.

The government didn't think out the policy of the levy as well as they could have; I don't have a lot of control over that, and I don't think my not acquiring these skills that we have a huge need for on a political basis would help anyone very much. The government is also desperate for people at every level to upskill digitally, due to the economic need.

We are crying out for people to take the opportunity to upskill using these apprenticeship programmes. If you know an 18yo who is interested, by all means direct them to the open apprenticeship jobs in this area.

Anyway, thanks for the input. Clear steer towards the MSc. It looks like City University might be an option for the MSc so I'll look into that too; less flexible teaching though, which might be unworkable for me.

I also lean towards the MSc, though it would depend on how either programme fit into life - like you said OP, if one programme's teaching route is unworkable, then it's unworkable. Maybe talk to your employer about their thoughts on this?

Degree apprenticeships have been advertised to young people as an alternative to university in spaces aimed at them my DS1 is interested in taking this path after his BTEC as his college has talked them up a bit but they have also had "PR" to adults who need or want to retrain (I've seen them as a disabled adult when there is discussion on returning to work through apprenticeships), to employers and employees as a method of further training, and to colleges & universities as a way to diversify and get more funding. They're part of a way to improve adult learning that's really needed in many areas of the UK where it is far too sparse on the ground. There are so many factors in their numbers dropping, none of them to do with those over 18 who have degrees helping to keep numbers up. Everyone who does it and has a positive result for them and their employer can be used as evidence to other employers of their worth.

I've just checked out of curiosity and my employer has a number of entry level data apprentice roles open right now. Only GCSEs required to apply.

I can tell you from experience and intimate involvement with my employer's capability planning that my doing this course has zero impact on the number of entry level apprentice roles in this area we need and will fund. None. What I'm doing is a completely different strategic move where the value is in combining my existing subject matter expertise and 10 years of work experience with data science capability. And we still have plenty of headroom in our levy fund pool.

Data science is unfortunately a meaningless buzzword used to dress up many data analysis/data processing roles.
As actual data science work requires a very strong mathematical background any MSc which doesn’t require this isn’t worth its salt. If you already have said mathematical background then go ahead. Also if you just want the degree for the sake of it then MSc.
The BSc might be of more actual use if you’re from a non-maths degree.
Again it would depend on the modules of each degree.

I don't have a maths degree, but I have maths A-level and a fair bit of statistics through my undergrad and postgrad degree. I'm pretty strong mathematically.

In that case I would advise the MSc
Also love your username that show was one of my teen binge watch favourites

Thanks.

Let me put it this way, I think I could make the case that I qualify for the Oxford Statistical Science MSc, even if I might not get in given the competition, and I understand that's the most academically prestigious course in the area. I've always been a high performer in maths, which is partly why I want to get into this area.

I'm also not looking to become a "pure"/discipline agnostic data scientist, but to move into an emerging area of analytics associated with my existing skillbase. "So why do the degree at all, just learn the coding and do the projects?" Well, because I enjoy it, I benefit a lot from the structure of study and would find it hard to cover the equivalent ground independently, and most importantly being sponsored for it through work gives me much more license to knock down doors and get data projects going. So that's where I'm at.

I actually have a couple of mates on that exact course 😂So is the reason for the choice that you will need to move providers(?) for the MSc? Otherwise given your background it’s strange to even consider the BSc.

I’m in a somewhat similar position myself except with computer science - while I’ve made it this far with on the job learning I struggle with the lack of structure. What I’ve gleaned from my research is that it’s perfectly possible to create an MSc with the same ‘content’ as a BSc. As long as there is a research/dissertation component it will be the higher qualification although the material is the same.
MSc with prior background requirements are the ones which actually teach graduate level academic content
Given this I’m planning to take 2 MSc... I see no reason for a BSc first as third year often covers specialist modules that you can learn elsewhere. The first two years cover the theoretical grounding that you need

So is the reason for the choice that you will need to move providers(?) for the MSc? Otherwise given your background it’s strange to even consider the BSc.

Basically yes, I guess. I've just found the options confusing and complex. There are few people yet doing what I'm doing and even the apprenticeships in this area are pretty new. My instinct was to go for the MSc but I would need flexible teaching/delivery and I wasn't sure my preferred option, City, would be sufficiently flexible, and the very flexible option already supported by my employer, Anglia Ruskin U, frankly gave me the heebie jeebies. I want to go the apprenticeship option for all the obvious reasons - study paid for, workplace support - and with DC to pay for I'm not in a position to take off and do a FT master's. I'm kind of having to carve out my own role at work because this area is so new to us, so I have few benchmarks.

I've had a quick glance for the modules of both courses (I hope these are correct!)
www.city.ac.uk/prospective-students/courses/postgraduate/data-science
aru.ac.uk/study/degree-apprenticeships/data-science

They're not quite the same thing.

The MSc is geared towards pure data science (as in the analysis of data and the formation of predictive models) . So for example data processing, pipelines etc etc are not taught here. In fact the course prospectus recommends that you learn Python. This means that in order to apply what you have learnt on the job you may need to spend extra time learning the specific tools and technologies used to collect and process data.

The BSc is more practical, covering aspects of both programming and data science. If you will need to also manage the infrastructure behind your data (such as the collection and pre-processing of it) then this would be better. Roles such as data engineer (people who get the data into a useable format) would be achievable with this degree, but not the MSc.

Depending on what your actual job role is you will need a mix of skills. If you're founding it from scratch then you will probably need to do a lot of the programming yourself. While in more mature teams the data scientists and data engineers are completely separate.

Also I take back what I said before... apologies I assumed that they were both similar degrees

Also a final thing to add is that degree learning in these fields never fully cover everything you need to know. If you’re going to be the ‘most senior’ person helping to set up the function then you might have to spend a bit of your time experimenting on your own. Given that I’d go for the more flexible degree. Again all this is very very circumstance specific
DM me if you want to go into more detail...

Thanks @TheLastLotus.

I do already work in Python on my current course so that bit doesn't worry me. I may well PM you with some more organised questions once I've formulated them.

I don't think the university curricula vary all that much for an apprenticeship course at a given level as apprenticeships have a set course standard that has to be covered, but of course the standards for the Level 4-6/undergrad and Level 7/postgrad courses are different.

(MN is amazing, you really can find everything on here.)

@PresentingPercy

A BSc is entry level for an 18 year old. It’s just a great shame that thousands of apprenticeships don’t go to 18 year olds. They go to employed adults who already have a degree. You can justify it for your career but overall it’s not what most people thought degree apprenticeships were all about. The pr was all about an alternative route for 18 year olds to get a degree and work at the same time. I think the employers should all have a rethink especially as the number of apprenticeships has halved in the last couple of years. Yes, I do understand it’s about what’s best for you.

Such a shame you have this train of thought, and it's people like you we're fighting against to change the stigma around what an apprentice is.

We work with apprentices who have degrees but needed a career change because of unemployment or family commitments.
We work with apprentices who are now in their 40s and 50s and have been out of work their whole life and taking a step into an apprenticeship is a huge move.

Kickstart is a massive scheme at the moment and there are more jobs than there are 18-24 year olds...if someone is keen to do an apprenticeship and it's furthering their career and helping their employer, does it really matter how old they are??