What allowance to give DD when starting her degree in September

[Londonmummy66]

I'm not really sure what to give DD when she starts in September. She has a scholarship so her course fees are only £300 a term. As she is in London her rent is nearly £200 a week. DH and I had originally planned to pay her fees so have decided we should pay her rent instead. Would £500 pcm be about right on top she is sensible so would save any extra cash she had at the end of the month - it feels as if she wouldn't have to decide between a new pair of tights and food and give her enough to do some socialising etc as well. Should mention that she is going to study music so there are instrument costs etc like strings and bow rehairs etc that are not cheap either.

Sounds very fair to me. You must be very pleased with the scholarship! What a result. London is more expensive because transport has to be factored in. Where is she living? The new RCM halls are near me.

I did mean to say: are you wealthy? Are you expecting her to earn well? Is there any reason why she shouldn’t take out the loan? Lots of musicians earn poorly so will never ever pay the loan back or even pay much of a grad tax. Do you have a better use for the money? How will she exist afterwards when looking for work? Can you/she afford rent then? Would it be better to use £1000 a month for 3 years for that?

Agree with PP

Do you not intend to apply for the loan ? Remember it is mis-named and doesn't work like a loan at all, but a tax. Check Martin Lewis site for advice.

However, in terms of "What does a student spend, once (usually inclusive of bills) rent is paid?"
£500 would make her a rich student.
Half that is plenty.

However, on all these threads, people include or don't include different things the student has to use their own money for.

From phone contracts to travel at the start and end of each term.

They can live on very little even in London. My dn is studying the arts at the moment and they are literally all in the same boat, food in London is cheap, transport is cheap and things like haircuts can be had on modelling nights. She doesn’t complain and we buy her a shop every month and give her the odd £30 amd she’s fine. The loan doesn’t cover much after the rent but it’s been fine so far.

It will really depend what her friends do. Drinking and socialising in London is not cheap. It’s expensive and nowhere is a student dive. Doesn’t work like that. DD was at LCF and modelled for hair etc. A music student might struggle a bit with that. Transport to uni must be taken into account as accommodation is literally all over the place so it might be needed every day. It’s unlikely to be campus.

Plus, London has an array of things to do and it’s a shame to live like a hermit. She won’t be the richest student on £500 a month! As if! In London? Factor in if she’s paying for everything (Clothes, phone, printing etc) or just food and fun.

Wow some parents give a grand a month!? That's 12k a year....

Really!?

Well done on her scholarship! That’s fabulous news.

First of all, what’s the plan for the following 3 years when it comes to finance? I was a scholar at one of the London conservatoires and I know the system in and out - scholarships that stay the same throughout all 4 years are extremely rare. 90% of people only get them for first year, or the amount decreases drastically from second year onwards. I kept mine but it was in very specific circumstances and already discussed at the audition, so I had a half-guarantee the same amount would be given each year.

Will she be taking out loans from second year onwards? Will those also need topping up if she doesn’t get full maintenance loan? Only you know your family finances and what you can stretch with but I see no reason why she wouldn’t take full loans each year - it’ll be a long time until she starts paying them off, if at all. I say this as someone who’s now in one of the world’s top 3 orchestras and I’m still not paying off the loan.

I personally believe £250-300 a month is plenty but I’m not a big drinker or party-goer, so I never spent much money on socialising. I was surviving on £150 as that’s all I had, but £250-300 is ideal. Is she within walking distance of the college or will she be paying for public transport?

Like you said, there are instrument and music costs on top. She’ll probably have access to great libraries for sheet music so that could all be free, but she might want her own copies and it adds up. Do you know what the situation regarding accompanists will be at her conservatoire and specific department? Some are free, some charge £40 per hour and if she’s a string player, she’ll need them an awful lot. Where I studied we had a number of free allocated hours in the string department, but the WWs for example had no accompanist, so they paid out of their pocket each time. There are 2-3 exams sessions each year, plus concerts and competitions she might enter, it adds up if you’re forking out £100 for each event.

So I guess you could give her £4-500 a month and she budgets for absolutely everything herself, if you trust she’ll be sensible about it. Or you could give her £250 and pay for all the extras as and when they come up. I’d personally go for option 1 as the most important skill a music student can learn is how to manage money. If she learns to be aware of all costs and their frequency, it’ll help her so much in the future. By the way when I say ‘give’ I mean either give the cash or allocate that money from the loan, or whatever you plan to do.

Just one last comment, I know it’s early days but she will probably be able to pick up some work especially after her first year. Over the years your contributions should reduce. Most of my colleagues and myself included taught privately, worked for concert halls such as SJSS, RAH, ROH and smaller local venues as ushers/bar staff etc, and there are occasional gigs and other work her college will offer. All of these are currently closed of course, but will start picking up again next year.

Please feel free to ask any other questions you may have. It’s not that long ago I went through the process and I’m still closely connected to the UK conservatoire scene, happy to help if I can.

£60 a week really would be low in London in this day and age without the DD getting work. That’s absolutely not a given right now.

£10,000 plus for rent isn’t unheard of either! She could get cheaper though! Undoubtedly. I think some posters don’t understand how expensive London can be and that plenty of students there are well off. It’s an international city with well off students at the universities.

Absolutely know how expenaive london is as we moved out due to not affording it!

Just amazed that people can think having a spare 12k a year is a casual thing!!! I guess once you move in wealthier circles its easy to lose sight of the rest.

I had a friend at uni whose mum gave him £1k a month, he was also getting £1k a month from student finance as he was claiming on his dad’s minimum wage income, which entitled him to a full London loan. He was also working for a further £1k each month approximately. He had loads of money that’s for sure. But that’s not normal, even for students in London. There’s always the odd case, but students are usually pretty skint.

£60 a week is tight but not impossible. A weekly shop can be done for £40 and if you walk or cycle to uni there are no transport costs. I was on £40-50 a week for months on end when I was studying in London (less than 5 years ago) and it wasn’t great, but definitely doable. There was no money for socialising but my friendship group were all from poor backgrounds, and happy to do pizza and movie night at home, or Tesco meal deal picnics in the park. We were happy with two trips a year to Primark for clothes. We were going to ROH or Royal Festival Hall weekly though, on £1 tickets and last minute student offers.

It really depends on transport costs and lifestyle. I didn’t get a choice as that’s all the money my scholarship and part time jobs would stretch to, after rent, bills and instrument-related costs. My parents couldn’t contribute unfortunately, I wasn’t entitled to a maintenance loan, and there were many in my situation.

Students from modest background shouldn’t be put off studying in London just because of the cost. I don’t believe doing an Asda shop in London is going to cost double what it would in Newcastle.

Thank you everyone for your comments. My understanding is that the scholarship is for all 4 years - that is what the email said anyway - I really hope so! I hadn't thought of taking the loan instead but I can see it might make financial sense but assume if the fees are only 10% of normal we can only claim a loan of an equivalent amount?

We had budgeted to pay her fees to leave her debt free so paying her rent for 40 weeks instead is roughly equivalent. We've been saving since she was a baby to help afford this which is why we can help now. She is not a first study string player so hopefully accompanist fees aren't going to be an issue but a set of cello strings is about £300 so she will need to cost those in from time to time. In fact she might even get some accompanying work towards the end of her course. I am also hoping she can pick up work at RAH or similar - she has already earned a bit from practice supervision but currently boards at a specialist school so that fell by the wayside but she might get some of it back.

As she is RCM the temptation of the shopping centre at Shepherd's Bush should not be discounted! However, she is quite sensible so I think she can manage and I am keen she learns to budget. As seen by the user name, travel to and from home will not be expensive and we have a family gym membership in central London she can continue to use so the monthly allowance is for food, toiletries and clothes etc.

I guess that afterwards we thought she could live at home if needs be whilst she establishes herself and there should be a decent local market for teaching/acccompanying if that is what she wants to do to support herself for the early years.

I would take out the student loan (subsistence) op as even tho you presumably earn well (if you can afford £1k pm) she will still get the minimum (£4K outside London, more in London).

She may as well have it. Then you could put what you don't pay her into a fund to pay a deposit on a house for example. £9k X 3 is a tasty sum.

I paid dd £20 pw on top of her loan of about £7k, seemed to be ok.

Sounds like you have a sensible plan in mind. Take your time to think through the options and see what’s best for your family.

You can definitely apply for the full amount of the maintenance loan even as a scholar. You would have to ask RCM and their admission dept, but it should also be possible that she takes out a full tuition fee loan and her scholarship is given to her in cash instead. This is what I did throughout the four years - loan went straight to the college, scholarship went into my account every term. It takes a bit of convincing them and re-directing the accounts, but it might be an option.

She must be very talented to secure a four year scholarship, so well done to her! Good luck to all of you and I hope she enjoys RCM, it’s fab!

Actually sorry, is she going to be living at home? If so the loan amount will be less...

As a musician it’s surely a no brainer to take the loan. She won’t pay 1p back until she earns over £26,000. Living at home afterwards may or may not be an option. Depends on work surely?

I think if you have saved, you do want to see DD have a decent standard of living if she wants to and enjoy her student years. My DDs had generous amounts because we could afford it but they were not that unusual. Each situation is different and students tend to find friends like them.

I assume she’s at the new hall on Goldhawk Road. Prince Consort Village. There’s a co-op next door but buses go just about anywhere! They are very flash halls with practice rooms so not an option for students on a tight budget. However Uxbridge Road has lots of cheaper food stores and Askew Road has many stores too. Just keep away from the expensive butcher!

My ds is in London and I give him 25 every Monday and 50 every Friday. I pay phone contract and rent top ups

That sounds quite fair.

Well done her on winning a scholarship! You must be proud.

Allowance? Do you mean parental contribution ? Full student maintenance loan ( not course fees-that’s separate) for London is £11672. That’s for accommodation, food , transport etc etc. If your Dd only gets the min ( about £5800) due to your income , then you are expected to stump up the rest ( the other £5800) . Or have I completely got the wrong end of the stick here?
If your Dd does not intend to apply for the loan and you want to pay instead, then I guess using the normal student loan amount that they are expected to live on ( £11672) for a london student is a good place to start?

OP, your plan sounds fine to me.

Our DC did not apply for loans. We are both economists and are very aware of the strains on public sector spending. We could afford to pay for our DC and felt we should. The fact they leave University debt free is a bonus, and will make it easier for them to stay in London where they may well need as large a mortgageable salary as possible.

(When this topic comes up there is often a stark contrast between Londoners and others. Presumably memories of being absolutely cash strapped when buying that first family home.)

What you give her will depend on how much is included in her accommodation, and the sort of person she is, and the friends she makes. Is she the sort who will want to hang out in coffee bars with her friends, or will she be happy to bring along her own thermos with friends doing the same? Is clubbing a major social activity or is she happy to look forward to a big night out every few weeks and in the meantime hang out with friends in each others flats or go to 'Spoons.

Both DC were part of the latter group. DS belonged to University societies, played some casual sport, and hung out with friends. He also does not drink which saves a lot, and studied quite hard. He was content with £1,000 a term with some top up from grandparents and some on-campus earning. (Do musicians have the opportunity to earn from casual gigs?) Ethnic food can be cheap in London, and DS and his friends regularly descended on China town. I am also a bit confused by the comment about transport in London being expensive. DS tended to walk. DD, who is in London this year, would have cycled had she been able to go into University.

DD gets £1,200 a term in Bristol, which is fine even though she runs a car. There are some with an awful lot more, but her friends tend to be sporty or outdoorsy and on about the same budget. The only time she had a problem was the first term when she had a lot of initial sports purchases (she had to buy a blazer as well as a full kit, plus gym membership and hefty subs) but this was solved by giving her a top up for her last week.

Observation suggests that whilst some students are good at spotting bargains: charity shop crockery, buying rail tickets in advance or using the coach, knowing the coffee shop that charges £1 as long as you bring your own mug, returning the router when you leave your flat and using USwitch to decide utilities, etc, etc others expect to live the same life as high earning parents.

My advice would be to discuss it with your daughter and start lowish (£100pw perhaps) and suggest you will pay for big ticket items or raise it if it becomes clear that she has regular additional expenses, perhaps music related. I don't think either DC feels they have missed out by having to budget, indeed I think they see it as a useful life skill. And as they get closer to graduating (both will end up as doctors, one medical, one academic) they are please that there will be a clean break with no loans to think about. when making career choices.

I doubt many will agree, but feel it useful to offer the alternative view.

Walking only possible if halls are near RCM. I know they are not. China Town is a long way to go and there is a cost factor in getting there. However there are cafes and restaurants around this area but plenty you might not want to go in!!!

I rarely see the RCM students around I have to say so I’m not sure where they socialise but it would be boring not to!

Well the way things are they are probably socialising with each other I’m halls, my niece goes to their nearest weather spoons as do most of the other students or they make use of their local area. Living in London you don’t do tourist things and there are students from all kinds of backgrounds.

We're thinking about this too. Dd has some savings herself (probably about £15k! Nearly 18 years of birthday/Christmas money and regular saving from her granny). We've agreed to pay her accommodation, and continue to pay her phone and £100 per month allowance. Thinking that with her own money and her loan she shouldn't need much more from us?

Percy. There are cheaper ethnic restaurants all over London. China town is favoured by LSE students because it is only a short walk. Those closer to Paddington, say, will find an equally good selection of East and SE Asian restaurants there. University accommodation is one way many students can live (relatively) cheaply in central London, whilst others do find central, often ex-council, flats within walking or cycle distance.

That said I dont know anything about RCM provision.

Separate things out. Lots of times I read about people saying 'we'll let them keep the loan, we'll pay rent etc' and it just gets all mushed up and you don't knjow if you're paying too much or too little.

Work out what the loans etc will cover, then work out what is left. Make sure Rent is covered and specifically consider a ringfenced amount for living expenses (plus entertainment etc). That way you can make sure you're not paying too much, but also make sure you're covering living expenses (as lots of money can often disappear into rent depending on where you're staying)

For simplicity we just have our DS pay his loan directly to us, then we transfer him money for rent and living expenses separately each month.

We provide £300pm which in hindsight is probably too much (not a lot of entertaining going on at the moment) but may be about right in London or as things open up. He normally has some saved up at the end of term to cover the holidays etc.

Hi - Assuming that her course is eligible for student finance (unfortunately my dd's musical theatre course isn't) then she should definitely take out a student loan to cover her fees.

My dd's fees are mostly covered by something called a Dada which is a type of scholarship for dance students so we pay £900 per term instead of £14 k per year!

With regards to maintenance we give dd the amount that she would get if her course was eligible for student finance. For dd not in London this equates to £950 per month over 10 months. That covers her rent and living costs.

She's planning on studying in London next year (not heard from RAM but she has a place elsewhere though if she gets RCS she might take that) and we will have to up her living costs slightly.