DS not working as he should

[ALevelhelp]

Hi

I just wrote a gigantic post and it vanished so here's a summary-

DS is 17. First year at college. Did well in GCSE's - mainly 7-9's. Taken on 3 A Levels which are predicted to be A/B

One A level (Maths) is a real struggle. He achieved an 8 at GCSE. He's currently on track for a D/E.

He puts in minimal effort, the absolute basic. Would never not do homework, but it's rushed, and would rarely do anything additional to homework (practice papers etc) even though it's expected.

He enjoys the social side of college - his time table means most days only one 2 hour lesson. So lots of free "study" time - not for DS. That's time for socialising, sleeping and definitely not studying.

His teacher is frustrated. Says he's very rusty. Beginning of the year gave him the benefit of the doubt - 6 months away from studying due to Covid etc- except he hasn't improved.

His usage of time is pretty dire - for example gives himself entire school hols off even though he has homework and exams straight after. Weekends are for a good time too.

I feel there's a balance- it's not healthy to only focus on studies, socialising is important too, but he hasn't got a balance.

I don't like nagging. He's nearly an adult and I can't force him to work, but he knows I'm disappointed. When we talk about it he behaves crestfallen - like he's doing so much work and it isn't good enough for me.

He has high aspirations in life - wants to go to Uni, get a good job and earn lots of money. However his attitude to learning doesn't match that IMO

We've told him to come to us if he needs anything - equipment, nagging etc but there's nothing.

What do I do, or say? Just leave him to it? Have a go? I just know how disappointed he's going to be next summer

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Honestly you can’t force him. If he doesn’t want to do it then he will face the consequences,

Your post is unclear though, is he doing three or four a levels?

@Bluntness100

Honestly you can’t force him. If he doesn’t want to do it then he will face the consequences,

Your post is unclear though, is he doing three or four a levels?

Thanks Bluntness

3 A Levels. Maths, Economics and Geography. He wants to do Economics at Uni and needs a decent Maths grade to get there. Discussing what will happen if he doesn't get there isn't an option, I don't think it's the end of the world if he doesn't go to Uni - a shame as he's a bright boy - but if he doesn't want to go for it then that's up to him. However he won't even consider that as an option?! Like he's suddenly going to pull it out of the bag with some last minute revision next summer

It's a strange experience for current year 12s as he got those GCSE grades without having to do exams or even presumably much revision.

They haven't had that stress yet. Does he have year 12 exams coming up? Could you help him put together a schedule?

I don't think any of my year 12 are currently doing more than they are set, or very few. DS does but not past papers. He is very hard working, though.

Optimistically, I would say it is early to be very concerned . Maybe get him some prospectuses or get him browsing unifrog or equivalent to set some goals and realise he needs decent grades.

The trouble is, if he's Y12 then he got those GCSEs handed to him. He didn't actually sit an exam for them, did he? And they may well have been 'generous' grades.

Bright students can cruise through GCSE without really needing to open a book. A level is a major jump, particularly Maths. Minimal effort, no attempt to consolidate the class work - he'll be looking at an E or a U grade at A level. I imagine his teachers have told him this, but he's not listening.

I'd be saying to him bluntly, What's Plan B? Because no one ever blagged their way to decent A levels on the amount of work you are prepared to put in, so you won't be going to Uni. Are you going to look at alternative careers at a lower level?

But I'd then leave him. You cannot nag someone through a 2 year A level course - the work involves a lot of independence and needs to come from them.

He was originally predicted A/B in all 3 A Levels. He's currently working towards an A in Geography and A/B in Economics and a D/E in Maths

@MadMadMadamMim

The trouble is, if he's Y12 then he got those GCSEs handed to him. He didn't actually sit an exam for them, did he? And they may well have been 'generous' grades.

Bright students can cruise through GCSE without really needing to open a book. A level is a major jump, particularly Maths. Minimal effort, no attempt to consolidate the class work - he'll be looking at an E or a U grade at A level. I imagine his teachers have told him this, but he's not listening.

I'd be saying to him bluntly, What's Plan B? Because no one ever blagged their way to decent A levels on the amount of work you are prepared to put in, so you won't be going to Uni. Are you going to look at alternative careers at a lower level?

But I'd then leave him. You cannot nag someone through a 2 year A level course - the work involves a lot of independence and needs to come from them.

The GCSE's were probably where he would have ended up based on previous mock tests, there wasn't any shockers. I spoke to his Maths teacher in year 11 about him taking it at A Level and he said he would have been surprised if he hadn't have taken it as he's be an ideal candidate

So, really, he is doing OK, bar maths. The first predictions might gave been calculated based in GCSE scores.

Just get him to start looking at entry requirements , I'd say. BBE won't help him get anywhere!

DS didn’t do much work for GCSEs or A levels - managed to get BBC (& A* for an EPQ & a Gold medal in a STEM Olympiad to illustrate that he really is capable of more than he achieved).

He is at a university which is several tiers below the ones he looked at & accepted an offer & insurance from.

I couldn’t do anything to get him to work as it had to come from him. I don’t know how he’s doing now, but he’s an adult & has to live with his own results.

I think the best thing you can do is encourage him to get a Saturday job so he can see how his life could pan out.

My DS is doing the same A levels but is in year 13. By far and away maths is the hardest one to do and the one he has spent the most time on revising for mocks and the forthcoming A level tests. We went through something similar last year in that he was struggling and then not motivated but has managed to pick up this year and pull his grade up to an A/B from a D/E

We considered economics as a university choice but has decided on accountancy and finance instead as he doesn't like essay writing.

No magic wand from me, just support for DS and a realisation from school sources that he needed to buck up his thoughts if he wanted to go to university. UCAS applications managed to focus his mind a bit.

@Piggywaspushed

So, really, he is doing OK, bar maths. The first predictions might gave been calculated based in GCSE scores.

Just get him to start looking at entry requirements , I'd say. BBE won't help him get anywhere!

He isn't doing bad at all in the other subjects. He just gets Geography, always has and he's enjoying and understanding economics- hence the keenness to study it at degree.

It's good he's doing well in those, means he can put more focus on the maths, but also makes it tough having a strong talk with him as he just responds with "I'm doing fine in Geography/Economics- what's your problem?!". The problem is economics degrees sadly go hand in hand with a Maths a level..

He's at a fantastic college, with lots of support - he just has to take it on.
He struggles, like a lot would, with accepting help. Maths has always been a strength with him, always towards the top of top set, so this is the first time he's looked to be struggling

@slalomsuki

My DS is doing the same A levels but is in year 13. By far and away maths is the hardest one to do and the one he has spent the most time on revising for mocks and the forthcoming A level tests. We went through something similar last year in that he was struggling and then not motivated but has managed to pick up this year and pull his grade up to an A/B from a D/E

We considered economics as a university choice but has decided on accountancy and finance instead as he doesn't like essay writing.

No magic wand from me, just support for DS and a realisation from school sources that he needed to buck up his thoughts if he wanted to go to university. UCAS applications managed to focus his mind a bit.

@slalomsuki

Thanks for your reply. What happened with Uni offers? Do they take the original predicted grades? Or the ones they are working at at the point of application?

DS is my eldest and it just all feels like such a minefield

Maths A level is hard ! Even students getting 9s can end up with a C. I'd suggest doing lots of past papers (a few now on the exam board websites). But don't just do them, look through the mark schemes for clues as to how to do each type of question. Reading the examiners reports can be useful too - these outline common mistakes students make and can help
him eliminate them.
Lots of good stuff online too. Physicsmathstutor is good for videos. And go to any clinics his school start next year.
It's a tough A level !

@mumsneedwine

Maths A level is hard ! Even students getting 9s can end up with a C. I'd suggest doing lots of past papers (a few now on the exam board websites). But don't just do them, look through the mark schemes for clues as to how to do each type of question. Reading the examiners reports can be useful too - these outline common mistakes students make and can help him eliminate them. Lots of good stuff online too. Physicsmathstutor is good for videos. And go to any clinics his school start next year. It's a tough A level !

This is what I think he should be doing, but there's no chance he would

He knew he was taking on a tough A Level, it was drummed into them in yr 11 and at open days etc, but he was keen. It's always been "his subject" etc so he felt he had to do it. I'll be honest, I'm a bit frustrated as he had the chance to change earlier in the year and said no. He could have taken on a diff subject, would have struggled to do economics degree but better chance of getting into Uni

This was my friends son, honestly you can’t force them encourage them or do anything, they’ll just sit in their room pretending. He knows he’s failing it, he knows the outcome, it’s not a big enough deal for him to do something about it.

Could you get a tutor for him? Doesn't require motivation on his part but might help him catch up.

Whoops. Put this on wrong thread.

@SometimesRavenSometimesParrot this will be hard but tell him it's fine, he can choose how much work he does. But if he doesn't get to Uni you will not be funding him any longer and he'll need to get a job to pay rent. You're happy to support him while he works hard but not if he chooses not to. And then don't mention it at all. V v v hard to do I know.
So Uni or job at 18. His choice. But the option to lay about and socialise once college ends goes if he doesn't try. Might work.

What about going to a couple of uni open days/ talks/ tasters? Some good threads on here on maths at uni with links.
Give him a vision of what he’s aiming at.
Then try and get him to listen to what he needs to do.

Just another perspective, because I totally get where you are coming from, but ... sometimes you have to let them screw up. Nagging etc won't work - you already know that. And the help he might need is all already on offer. So tis is down to him and nobody else.

Two years ago I took on a young (16) apprentice who absolutely refused to study any more, school was a waste of time etc etc etc. Her parents were devastated - they both had degrees and good jobs and leaving school at 16 was never in the game plan. At times it has been a bloody nightmare (for me - I am sure her parents hadn't a clue about any of it). We've had the missed deadlines for work, we've had the can't get up for work, and various other trauma's. But she's finished her apprenticeship this last week... and she's off to university in September on the course she really wants to do. Motivation is the one thing you can't give them, and sometimes reality is the only teacher!

Good post- I remember dds headmaster tell us in yr 7 we had to let them fail....... finding self motivation at 17 is more important than getting dragged through a levels and then floundering at uni.
And maybe uni later is a good plan...

He sounds motivated as he is doing well in the other subjects so maybe it is just that it is hard. At DS's school the pupils were discouraged from maths a level if they didn't get an a* at gcse .In top of that maths is usually seen as a subject where you build on your skills consistently and the current year12 had that long gap in their momentum.
A tutor could help him otherwise I rather agree with the pp who suggested a Saturday job.

He also needs to be aware that many Economics degree are very maths based too and and even the odd few that do not require Maths A level mean that there are maths modules that need to be taken.

Maybe end of year 12 exams and predicted grades discussions with school will make him realise he needs to knuckle down a bit.

Have a look at whatuni.com and put in potential grades and put in Maths at a D and see what comes up for the degree he wants to do. Maybe the shock will be enough if he sees that friends will be off to the usual places and he is left with low tier type unis to make him put the work in. If not, then he will find this on results day and may have to resit exams.

Ds2 very very similar here, except he is a y13 and really struggling with maths now, with just a month to go.

Really wish I had got him a tutor this time last year. If he clicks with his tutor, and does some work for them, he will start to find the lessons easier and enjoy them more. And it's a lot cheaper than him having a year off/retaking/finding a new uni course . . .

I think this is quite common, it is a huge transition leaving school and then going to 6th form college where they have a lot more freedom. I am assuming he has left his school and gone to college?
Also I agree it is a big jump from GCSE'S to A level's and it can come as quite a shock especially when they have to manage their own time and learning.
I have been through this with one of mine, exactly the same issues.
It cause a lot of arguements between us and in the end I backed off.
They have to want to do it for themselves and as the saying goes
'you can take a horse to water but you cannot make him drink'
He did an extra year in 6th form as he did not get the grades he needed for the uni course he wanted to do.
I had to plead with his tutors to let him resit Maths as they thought he was not capable of achieving higher than the D he got. He managed a B in the resit's again without pulling out all the stops when it came to revising. I was so glad he proved his tutors wrong.
To be honest he continued in the resit mentality all the way through uni. I reminded him that he could not resit his finals!
He left uni with a first class Civil Engineering Degree, but typically now works in Spain as a language assistant.

This was me, although luckily I managed to scrape the grades for my uni offer. My first maths module I was on 96/100. The last I barely scraped 40. It was, however, still enough of a scare to make me work harder at university.

By far the biggest thing for me was that I didn’t know how to revise. I coasted GCSEs and was at a low-performing school where time and effort went to getting people to pass, rather than helping the more able hit higher grades, so I’d never really spent time being shown or learning how to revise.

People would say ‘do past papers’ but I’d do them, look what I’d got wrong and think ‘right, I see that now’ and move on. I didn’t know how to take that and apply it. Posts like mumneedswine’s would have been alien to me.

If you’d have asked me, I’d have said I knew how to revise. I don’t really know what the answer is - asking for support on that would require some umph and motivation on his part. I do think it’s times like this that it’s a shame we don’t have the AS format any more (in England).