How much is a PhD ?

[DinosaurDiana]

My DD has announced that she will be doing a PhD.
We will have paid her accommodation for four years, and don’t want to anymore.
Can I ask how the course is funded and how she will pay accommodation/food ?

She needs to look for funded PhDs. Fees will be paid and she'll get a tax free stipend of approx £15000 per year. PhD students can pick up extra jobs as teaching assistants or hall supervisors in the halls of residence. Marie Curie ITNs employ PhD researchers. The pay for those is fabulous but there's a mobility element which would mean moving country.

@DinosaurDiana

It’s psychology. I just think that she wants to be a permanent student. She does work in the summer to earn money, I’m hoping we won’t be in lockdown again so that she can get a job. I just don’t see that many opportunities to lecture in it at Uni, but feel free to correct me.

She is going to need a PhD for many careers in psychology, not just academia eg clinical psychologist:

careers.bps.org.uk/

OK, so I am an academic in psychology & supervise PhD students in that area.

There are plenty of careers that can come from a Psychology PhD - it is more of a growth area than some other domains, and has plenty of skills that can transfer to jobs outside academia.

So if your DD can get funding for a Psychology PhD at a good (RG or similar) university, then she should definitely go for it. But she should not do a self-funded PhD. There is enough funding around that a strong student (i.e. First at Bsc and/or Distinction at MSc) has a good chance to get PhD funding.

@parietal

OK, so I am an academic in psychology & supervise PhD students in that area.

There are plenty of careers that can come from a Psychology PhD - it is more of a growth area than some other domains, and has plenty of skills that can transfer to jobs outside academia.

So if your DD can get funding for a Psychology PhD at a good (RG or similar) university, then she should definitely go for it. But she should not do a self-funded PhD. There is enough funding around that a strong student (i.e. First at Bsc and/or Distinction at MSc) has a good chance to get PhD funding.

Sorry to be thick, but I don’t know anything about this, how much would she get for funding ? Is it enough to cover student accommodation and basic living costs ?

Sorry to be thick, but I don’t know anything about this, how much would she get for funding ?
Is it enough to cover student accommodation and basic living costs ?

This is the sort of stuff your adult daughter needs to be sorting. There's no need for you to even be involved. Just tell her you won't be paying and she'll need to sort funding and that can't be arranged she'll have to get a job. Like everyone else.

The gov now offer student loans for PhD’s up to £25k - www.gov.uk/doctoral-loan

She would only pay it back once she was earning a certain amount. I’d send her that link...

Funding usually covers fees and pays a maintenance stipend of £15k per year.

My understanding is that this stipend is not taxable, so the first £12,570 of additional earnings won't be taxed either.

If the University is able to offer RA or TA work a student can end up really quite well off. I don't know if London stipends are a bit higher, but we calculated that with the tax advantages and the guaranteed teaching work DS would have been on the equivalent of a £40,000 pa gross income and able to live at home.

Your DD needs to do some real research into living costs, alternative sources of income, and future career pathways. It is unreasonable for her to simply expect you to pay.

She is going to need a PhD for many careers in psychology, not just academia eg clinical psychologist

Clinical psychology isn't entry via an "academic" PhD, it's an applied, practice-based doctorate (a DClinPsy) and it's effectively a paid job. (It's also extreeeeeeemely competitive and hard to get onto, and basically everybody has to spend time working in the field and often applying multiple times to get onto it.) Entry to the applied fields of psychology - clinical, educational, sports, forensic, occupational etc - is generally through either a specific practice-based doctorate or on the job supervised practice following a master's, and most fields are very competitive. A "pure" academic PhD is a bit different and I don't have much experience with them, so I defer to the PP who does. I can see that there would be some commercial applications for them, not least in branding and market research. But the DD couldn't just go into clinical psychology or something.

OP why can't you have a conversation with your daughter about this? It's really strange to me that you've posted here without even speaking to her about the details of her studies

@BilboBercow

OP why can't you have a conversation with your daughter about this? It's really strange to me that you've posted here without even speaking to her about the details of her studies

Yes, you are actually the one that has the power here. Because it's YOUR money! If you decide not to fund her for her PhD, well, she won't be getting funding for her PhD will she.

Just ask her her plans for how she will fund her PhD. if she says "well, you'll be doing it", you can tell her no you won't. And as was explained in the other thread about the DSD wanting a PhD in English, an academic career means moving institutions and going to the best one for what you specifically want to study, not just staying at home so you can live rent free.

@ScarfaceCwaw

She is going to need a PhD for many careers in psychology, not just academia eg clinical psychologist

Clinical psychology isn't entry via an "academic" PhD, it's an applied, practice-based doctorate (a DClinPsy) and it's effectively a paid job. (It's also extreeeeeeemely competitive and hard to get onto, and basically everybody has to spend time working in the field and often applying multiple times to get onto it.) Entry to the applied fields of psychology - clinical, educational, sports, forensic, occupational etc - is generally through either a specific practice-based doctorate or on the job supervised practice following a master's, and most fields are very competitive. A "pure" academic PhD is a bit different and I don't have much experience with them, so I defer to the PP who does. I can see that there would be some commercial applications for them, not least in branding and market research. But the DD couldn't just go into clinical psychology or something.

Yes, I know ScarfaceCwaw

It's just that OP seems to equate doing a PhD with dossing around as an eternal student living off the Bank of Mum & Dad, a way of delaying getting a job. I thought it might be helpful for her to read through BPS careers section to understand that if her DD wants a career in psychology, rather than using her degree to get an unrelated graduate job, an undergraduate degree may only be the first step. It helps put her DD's choices into perspective/context.

My feeling is that the OP would probably be more receptive if, for example, her DD had said I want to train as a clinical psychologist. Whereas the reality is, it is incredibly competitive, requires a PhD and will be financially difficult while she is training, just like her DD's ambition to have an academic career IYSWIM?

I dunno, I am a bit iffy about a plan to become an academic. I know it's a real career, but given the paucity of posts and its overall insecurity I think it's a bit of a shell game unless you happen to be in a hot STEM field. I would really want to check a DC of mine had thought it through if they planned to pursue an academic PhD with the aim of an academic career.

ClinPsy is sort of the inverse in that it's an absolute bugger to get onto the doctorate but once you're on it you're basically set. Whereas an academic PhD is relatively easy to get onto (if not easy to fund) but may leave you buggered afterwards.

I don't really disagree with you ScarfaceCwaw!

But your opinion is based on knowledge rather than a feeling that your DC wants to be an eternal student. I just thought the website would be helpful context for the OP. She can't give constructive advice/criticism if she knows nothing about the subject.

Fair, littlewhitestar, I don't think we're disagreeing at all, so have a good evening