Widening Participation/Contextual Admissions

[SometimesRavenSometimesParrot]

Hi all. I’ve seen quite a lot of posts lately where people seem a bit confused about different widening participation initiatives and contextual admissions, either how they work, why they work or why they’re even done... and some people asking questions about them and not getting anything resembling an accurate response.

I’ve worked in a WP team for seven years now (with a couple of short stints in admissions), so since I have often had excellent advice from Mumsnet and my questions answered, I thought I’d offer myself up to answer anything in this area someone might want to know.

I be name changed so I can be a bit more honest and I know there are several other posters who work or research in this area who might want to chip in!

Standard disclaimer of every uni works slightly different, so answers will be broad ranging - feel free to PM me if you’ve got a specific q!

The accommodation fees are why a lot of students will not apply to London Unis. Costs are a big factor for them in choosing where to go (even with parental help). They want to have a life and not be working in a job every spare minute so it's easier to head North.
And many Unis offer bursaries - Sunderland are giving free accommodation for first years medics this year which is massive. Others give money for care students or PP ones.
But London (& to some extent Manchester) is too pricey for a lot of regular students. Unless you already live there and can commute.

There is no way we could afford for my sons to go to uni in london. We are middle earners and our son gets the minimum loan which covers most of his accommodation but not all. We pay for everything else. Our 2nd son starts in September. So we will be topping up 2 of them. London prices would be impossible.

@Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow and us. Think it's more common than London Unis realise and it's a real shame.

Yes, we're in the same position re London universities. Middle income and with twins starting at the same time, it's going to be a bit of a struggle as it is - and we definitely don't regard ourselves as badly off, but we're living in quite a cheap part of the country and London is so expensive.

We didn't tell our two not to apply, just told them to look into the financial details and that they'd certainly need term-time jobs. Scottish universities were largely ruled out because of the 4 years rather than 3 of making up the minimum loan amount. We've been fortunate to be in a position to save some money for this, but stretching to 4 years would be hard.

A lot of students at the school where DH works (northern city) choose local universities because of cost. Just 10 miles or so away in our more middle class town, DTs' friends have applied all over the country, from St Andrews to Bournemouth, but they don't know anyone going to London.

All over the UK, I meant...

@mids2019

Realistically are their financial barrier s to WP. Even with bursaries are disadvantaged students likely to have the same level of student experience as others?

There are definitely still financial issues, which is why WP students tend to study at cheaper unis and commute. Although they’re more likely to receive a higher loan amount, they’re also more likely to have to rely on the higher loan amount - if things get tough their parents often physically cannot help. So they can miss out on some aspects of student experience, but again there is work being done to make sure this is minimal.

The son who is starting in September is on a 4 year course which involves a year abroad. I'm trying not to think too hard about how on earth that is going to work now Erasmus has stopped for uk students.

And my other son is talking about doing a masters.

I don't know why the Uni accommodation is so expensive in some areas. At Dds university which is on campus and not in a city or affluent area.. The uni are charging £56k a year for a self catering townhouse for 40 weeks. I'm sure what they do with the other 12 weeks (summer schools maybe). The rooms are tiny, yes they are ensuite but it is literally a shower, toilet and wash basin. I do think there should be regulations to review the cost of uni accommodation.

56k???????
Is that shared between all the residents you mean?

Actually I don't know where I got 56k from its actually 84k!! paid by 12 of them for 40 weeks and id say the bedrooms are 8x11 at the most.. The living area downstairs is also small.

@Daisysway - I think that’s £7,000 pa, which actually isn’t that expensive in many parts of the country. I assume that included Bills.

My DD is a student is a very cheap city and her ( self catering ) halls were nearly £6000 pa 5 years ago.

Surely your DD would be better to rent something privately? Sharing with 11 others isn’t ideal.

Well compared to the house she will rent next year with bigger bedrooms it is incredibly expensive (after bills £74 a month more expensive) and a total rip off. Dds not in a city centre and Warwick university is actually bordering on a very poor area of Coventry. Let's face it no on site facilities this year to benefit from. If the local housing rent is £100 a week Inc bills then surely that should be the going rate for uni accommodation?

Don't want to derail the thread but any chance you could PM me which hall of residence that is at Warwick, Daisysway? DS may be going to Warwick and those rooms sound very small.

Sent pm..

(My son's Bristol rent this year (not halls) is about £7500 and does not include bills and I am the one paying as their father does not pay a penny - and that is despite the course being 100% on line this year but that is a covid issue I suppose)

Many thanks, daisysway

@LoonvanBoon - DS is at Warwick in the post grad accommodation although currently still studying from home. The room is small but well planned and the block is new with good kitchen facilities and an on-site gym.

@parker231. Sounds like he is in the post grad accommodation next to my dd (Cryfield Townhouses). There are also single PhD studios tucked into each townhouse.

@SometimesRavenSometimesParrot this will be hard but tell him it's fine, he can choose how much work he does. But if he doesn't get to Uni you will not be funding him any longer and he'll need to get a job to pay rent. You're happy to support him while he works hard but not if he chooses not to. And then don't mention it at all. V v v hard to do I know.
So Uni or job at 18. His choice. But the option to lay about and socialise once college ends goes if he doesn't try. Might work.

Sorry, wrong thread 😂😂

Is this going to be a problem with WP, the fianances?

I was concerned with London as it could be argued that the university of London (LSE,UCL,Imperial,KCL etc) is a comparable institution to Oxbridge so really rent etc shouldn't be a barrier to poorer families.

I was thinking more generally about the university experience and for a lot of courses there is a fair amount of time that can be devoted to extra curricular activities (including socialising). This is great if you have financially supportive parents as it allows a great opportunity to engage in university sports as well as other activities while having a varied social life. However for the disadvantaged this becomes more problematic.

Could a 2 year degree help with the work more concentrated (possibly less holiday) but with the advantage that students pay possibly smaller tuition fees, less rent and general living costs. OK the work may be more intense but if you were to get a job at 18 I would argue that your working week would have equal intensity

Could a 2 year degree help with the work more concentrated (possibly less holiday) but with the advantage that students pay possibly smaller tuition fees, less rent and general living costs. OK the work may be more intense but if you were to get a job at 18 I would argue that your working week would have equal intensity

While this can often seem like an obvious option on a practical level it doesn't work.

It wouldn't work for research intensive universities or universities who have staff on both teaching and research contacts as the summer is when we do our research! Also, universities often hire out their spaces in summer for events and conferences which is income generation. Plus, a lot of PG and international teaching happens over summer.

Universities do so much more than just teach undergraduate students.

@mids2019

Is this going to be a problem with WP, the fianances?

I was concerned with London as it could be argued that the university of London (LSE,UCL,Imperial,KCL etc) is a comparable institution to Oxbridge so really rent etc shouldn't be a barrier to poorer families.

I was thinking more generally about the university experience and for a lot of courses there is a fair amount of time that can be devoted to extra curricular activities (including socialising). This is great if you have financially supportive parents as it allows a great opportunity to engage in university sports as well as other activities while having a varied social life. However for the disadvantaged this becomes more problematic.

Could a 2 year degree help with the work more concentrated (possibly less holiday) but with the advantage that students pay possibly smaller tuition fees, less rent and general living costs. OK the work may be more intense but if you were to get a job at 18 I would argue that your working week would have equal intensity

Also if you’re starting with two year degrees you could quite easily end up with a two tier system where only the more advantaged students take up a three year degree. There are many many issues with the idea.

We’ve done research on this with our WP students and the issue with them taking up extra student experience opportunities (societies, study abroad, work placements etc) seems to be more confidence/knowledge related than finance. But then, we’re in the north and many of our students commute in so finance is less of a worry. Plus we offer them guaranteed jobs, so it’s all swings and roundabouts to be honest.

Broadly speaking, I think once WP students get to university the issues become very institution specific and the approach needs to be too, because of things like finance

Interesting points.

I understand there would have to be a wholesale revision about HE provision and staffing to accommodate 2 year degrees. I think my point was that looking back at my own university experience there was at times a fair amount of dead time which could be filled very happily if you had the money to join various societies or to go out for drinks 3 or 4 times a week. Being on a campus meant in retrospect it was quite an insulated (dare I say it privelged) existence for 3 years. I went on the days of no tuition fees and there were loans which helped but I saw many that with the support of their parents had a reasonably idyllic 3 years at university. The perception was that university was a rite of passage for middle class children allowing both a chance to study while experiencing early adulthood to its full.

Interesting point about commuting as though obviously that saves money does this not separate the disadvantaged from the full university experience and also tied the student into a local institution when we should be giving students choice of a range of geographically diverse places to suit them and their aspirations?

I just feel being broke at university especially away from home when socialising is important for mental health must be difficult.

I understand there would have to be a wholesale revision about HE provision and staffing to accommodate 2 year degrees.
This is a massive understatement. And as raven mentioned it would create a two tier system as those universities who are research intensive just wouldn't go for it and those do tend to be your more elite universities.

I think my point was that looking back at my own university experience there was at times a fair amount of dead time which could be filled very happily if you had the money to join various societies or to go out for drinks 3 or 4 times a week. Being on a campus meant in retrospect it was quite an insulated (dare I say it privelged) existence for 3 years. I went on the days of no tuition fees and there were loans which helped but I saw many that with the support of their parents had a reasonably idyllic 3 years at university. The perception was that university was a rite of passage for middle class children allowing both a chance to study while experiencing early adulthood to its full.

What you refer to as dead time I call independent study time!! Obviously not all of it but condensing a degree into two years would change the dynamic of teaching and learning at university and make it more like school/college which wouldn't be a good thing IMO.

Also, this 'dead time' can be used to enhance your employability skills through part time work (most universities have job shops) and involvement in societies and specific projects run at the university- many of which are low cost or even free. Finance isn't the reason people don't participate in societies.

Interesting point about commuting as though obviously that saves money does this not separate the disadvantaged from the full university experience and also tied the student into a local institution when we should be giving students choice of a range of geographically diverse places to suit them and their aspirations?

Universities are very aware of the issues experienced by commuter students and there is work done to support them.

Students do have a choice and certain groups choose a local university. There are a number of reasons for this with finance being just one.