Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Personal statements - WTF?!!

70 replies

StartingGate · 02/04/2021 13:27

DD 17 starting to think about Uni applications for 2022. Goes to a big city State school in Scotland. Has had no Uni guidance at all from school due to Covid. We’re stumbling through getting a sufficient education to pass the ‘non-exams/exams’ with good grades. She got 7 As at Nat 5 last year but hasn’t decided what she’s taking for Advanced Highers (you get Uni offers based on the exams you take this year - 5 Highers)

I’ve just been researching Personal Statements and I’m thoroughly depressed. There’s kids who are already members of political parties, been on UniQ courses at Oxford, Head Boys, Head Girls, people who have done work experience in UN Headquarters or High Courts, who have digested the works of Wittgenstein and worked part-time in schools, solicitor’s offices, law firms, orphanages - kids who have won competitions for public speaking, set up and composed for their string quartets - it is utterly staggering.

My DD is bright but quite shy and undecided on what she wants to do. Her passion is music and shes working towards Grade 8 in one instrument and Grade 7 in another. She’s attended a council funded orchestra every Saturday since she was in Primary school, and is in another external orchestra that rehearses on Sundays when there are performances. She’s working hard on Grade 5 Theory which she’s taking in June. But she doesn’t do anything in school as far as music is concerned apart from perform when it’s needed for exams. She has private lessons for both her instruments - that’s all been on Zoom this past year.

She’s chosen to keep her music separate from school life which she associates with academic work. She says she wants to continue with her music but not necessarily study it as an academic subject. Many of the Music degrees seem quite ‘elite’ and intimidating.

So she’s not in any school groups, doesn’t have a part-time job, doesn’t do any sport. Did DofE Bronze but hated it. She’s not Conservatoire standard (yet) or in a choir but is very good (her teachers both say she has genuine talent) and has come on in leaps and bounds with her playing these past 2 years since she’s had the private lessons. Not hugely into social media (thankfully)

Any spare minute, she’s playing her instruments or teaching herself to play other instruments recording and composing music, writing some lyrics (but keeping them to herself for now) using all sorts of Music computer software. She was into personal fitness and nutrition but that’s gone off the boil since Lockdown closed the gyms. Likes going out on long walks in the countryside. She’s interested in the world of politics and into self-improvement and psychology and how people’s brains work. Watches lots of instructional videos and Ted Talks online. But none of the showboaty stuff that I’ve seen on the Personal Statements I’ve read.

How on earth is she going to get into university without all that extra stuff? She has indicated an interest in politics, psychology or philosophy but her school doesn’t offer those subjects or certainly didn’t when she was picking her subjects at the end of 2nd year.

Can you not go to university and learn new stuff? Do you have to show an in-depth involvement and knowledge of any subject you’re applying to (And of course I understand that you need to evidence your interest by mentioning what you’ve read and be able to explain your interest) But most of these personal statements sound like they’ve been written by kids who’ve already attended University! We don’t qualify for any adjusted offers based on school or postcode.

Anyone else feel like this? Any tips on what she can do (once this intense period of testing is over) to make herself more attractive as a candidate for university?

OP posts:
memberofthewedding · 03/04/2021 00:43

I went to uni in mid life and had no A level GSCSE. However I did have professional qualifications, life and extensive travel experience.

I based my statement and presentation at interview on the fact that I had done considerable research on that particular subject, course, and some of the elements within it. For example that I felt drawn to course X which was taught by Prof. Y, and that I was familiar with many of his books. I also sent two pieces of writing ahead of me. I got a verbal offer at the interview for a course with over 300 applicants and 14 places.

Your daughter sounds like an ideal candidate and only needs to refine her interests and present accomplishments into a coherent statement.

sendsummer · 03/04/2021 08:12

Your DD likes to learn, is good at the academic side of demonstrating learning and does not limit herself to the taught curriculum. She is therefore an ideal candidate for a degree. It sounds as though her challenge is choosing which main subject(s). Possibly she should also be thinking of links between her main enthusiasms for a degree and PS

Jocasta2018 · 03/04/2021 08:28

Nit-picking here but I thought you had to have taken & passed Grade 5 Theory before you were allowed to take Grades 6-8 Practical exams?

MarchingFrogs · 03/04/2021 08:30

I based my statement and presentation at interview on the fact that I had done considerable research on that particular subject, course, and some of the elements within it.For example that I felt drawn to course X which was taught by Prof. Y, and that I was familiar with many of his books. I also sent two pieces of writing ahead of me. I got a verbal offer at the interview for a course with over 300 applicants and 14 places.

Where one is making a normal UCAS application to up to 5 universities, the PS has to be suitable for all applied to, so a direct reference to Prof Y's work would have to be used to demonstrate how this informs interest in the subject generally.

I may be in a minority here, but I'm not sure that universities should be basing decisions - at least for those applying at or more or less at the 'normal' time and with the 'normal' basic set of exam results / predicted grades / academic reference - on elements not openly declared to be part of the admissions process. And as most universities don't interview for the vast majority of courses, so there can be no viva voce test as to whether the randomly submitted piece was actually the applicant's own work.

Piggywaspushed · 03/04/2021 08:34

Hyacinth makes an excellent point : the usual problem with most students is cutting down content for the PS. It's very tight.

PresentingPercy · 03/04/2021 09:55

Most universities now tell you if the PS is part of the application process or not. Sometimes it’s a tie breaker. But no-one tests its authenticity.,

Mature students applying to one university (nearby perhaps?) can afford to name staff. However it comes across as a bit brown nosing and what happens if said prof never teaches undergrads it is on a sabbatical? It’s not good advice to name anyone in my view. Just mention areas of study you are interested in and why but try and ensure they are available at all the universities.

I just think,OP, that you and DD need to research courses and look at what they want. I would also email her music teacher. I would imagine they would be of help.

NotDonna · 03/04/2021 09:57

The PS has to be extremely focused on the subject and what your DD has done to prove that she’ll be awesome at studying it further. There’s only space for 4000 characters. Characters! Including spaces, punctuation etc. It’s hardly anything at all. It’s incredibly tricky to keep it that succinct, so superfluous info about irrelevant hobbies are either squeezed in a one-liner at the end or omitted entirely. If, however, hobbies/work experiences are relevant then they can be woven in with what she has learnt from these. Has to be relevant to the course otherwise it’s a waste of the tiny character allowance.

cantkeepawayforever · 03/04/2021 10:18

@Jocasta2018

Nit-picking here but I thought you had to have taken & passed Grade 5 Theory before you were allowed to take Grades 6-8 Practical exams?
It depends on the examination board taken. ABRSM is the one that requires Grade 5 theory for Grade 6+ exams. Trinity does not, as it can include 'musical knowledge' as an element in the exam.

DS, conservatoire student, has 2x Grade 8s with distinction (and GCSE and A-level Music), but doesn't have Grade 5 theory, because it is Trinity that offers grades in his particular genre.

quest1on · 03/04/2021 10:28

Hi OP. I know you said your DD is undecided about what she wants to do, but she must have a broad idea?

It totally depends on which unis she is applying to. Does she want to stay in Scotland, for instance?

If she is applying to Oxbridge, LSE or Imperial, the PS should be purely academic. You should not waste space mentioning orchestras etc - unless she is applying for music obviously!

Apart from this, I think the general balance on a PS is 80% academic, 20% ex.curricular. But more importantly, the PS should not read like a list. She should only mention something if she can show it has given her certain skills or understanding that are relevant to the specific course.

I think there is a separate list for “other” qualifications like music grades, D of E, etc anyway.

But firstly, she needs to decide on a subject. Then look at courses / individual uni requirements. Then go from there.

If she wants to do music, she’s got quite a lot already. If not, maybe she could enter an essay competition in her subject. Anything that shows interest beyond the curriculum.

orangecinnamon · 03/04/2021 10:35

@StartingGate
There are lots of things your Dd can explore to demonstrate 'passion for subject' without having to join groups etc. I had a bit of a panic and posted about Dd Music application yesterday on the Year 12 thread. Afterwards we sat down and talked about all the things she could use/has done.
Composition
Wider reading ...which has lead to her determining that she really enjoys exploring ethnomusicology
Attending online lectures...now is the time there are so many out there due to pandemic (then using that as a springboard to explore subject further)
Listening to podcasts
Open learning courses/Moocs (she did a couple last summer.. exploring more)
Selling her jewellery online and marketing through social media
Online choirs/jazz youth scheme
Just started an online Yoga teacher course (sure it is not a proper one but could be useful when talking about therapy in her PS if she does decide to mention future aspirations)
Will mention her job

She hopes to get into teaching/marketing or therapy after her Music degree.

Most academic music courses only have the performance element as core for first year.
If not music many of the above ideas can apply for humanities degrees e.g Gresham College do free online lectures, Cumberland Lodge have gone online too.
Perhaps start by looking at reading lists for subjects she is interested in, or attending online work experience if applicable?

If she does want to do Music, Southampton is really friendly and always happy to talk about entry. one of Dd teachers lectures there too. I appreciate it may be a bit far, it is too near for us and top of Dd list is Cardiff at moment based on cost of living and diversity of

orangecinnamon · 03/04/2021 10:36

...modules

Piggywaspushed · 03/04/2021 10:39

quest1on she mentions subjects in her OP:politics, psychology , philosophy.

OP, some unis offer excellent taster lectures : DS has been (virtually!) to Sheffield and Southampton recently. You can usually sign up to be informed about sessions and also find old ones on YouTube.

orangecinnamon · 03/04/2021 10:44

She could also weave her love of music into exploring other subjects...e.g for politics looking at protest music. A music therapy MOOC to link to psychology etc

2pinkginsplease · 03/04/2021 10:57

Definitely mention the music grades in PS, my son did as it shows commitment, dedication and creativity all which are life skills.

Ds mentioned his music, DoE , achievements in schools eg prefect, house captains, . Dd mentioned her mental health peer support course she did and also her student support for an S5 student who she had been buried up with during covid.

Does your child’s school do this?

My teens mostly spoke about why they want to do the uni course and how their skills and subjects from school can help achieve their goal of studying the chosen degree,

Remember PS don’t need to be completed till Dec time, .

quest1on · 03/04/2021 11:44

I’m so sorry OP, I missed that you had mentioned those three subjects.

One idea could be something like the Dukes Essay Competition. It runs every year (in the summer I think)? They have to write a short essay in response to a one-word title. There are a choice of one-word titles and the idea is they can approach the word from a range of disciplines - eg “Icon” could be approached via a maths perspective or art history, sociology, etc (hope that makes sense) Confused. Don’t worry about winning as thousands enter, but it can be thought-provoking and encourage wider-reading which is what she needs for the PS. There will be loads of other competitions etc too, so have a Google. Good luck!

For those subjects, maybe just mention the music right at the end, eg. “I am in such and such orchestra and this provides a useful balance to my studies” or something along those lines. I wouldn’t mention grades in the actual PS itself. DS is similar re- music but was told by his school not to mention it (he also applied for a social science), only in a final line at the end.

PresentingPercy · 03/04/2021 14:01

The op said she wasn’t studying those subjects though. I’m now confused - what is she studying and where does music fit in?

Piggywaspushed · 03/04/2021 14:08

Those subjects aren't available at school in Scotland. The music is clearly an extra curricular activity.

Piggywaspushed · 03/04/2021 14:10

Sorry, meant to say widely available.

LlamaDrama20 · 03/04/2021 14:14

There is a great thread of ideas and links for extra curricular activities by subject here:

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6531484

PresentingPercy · 03/04/2021 14:49

Well in Scotland then, everyone will be in the same boat. You have to look at what you are studying and whether that fits into the subjects offered at university. Look at the subject content. I’m not sure schools ever really helped with this depth of analysis.

Piggywaspushed · 03/04/2021 14:52

At a Scottish uni, she could probably study at least two of those in her first year at least. One of the benefits.

I0NA · 03/04/2021 15:20

You are making this more complicated that it needs to be and worrying about her Ps when she doesn’t even know what course she wants to do.

You are also being a bit dramatic - she’s in the same situation as 90% of S5 in the county.

She needs to

  1. Decide on some possible courses and therefore her S6 choices.
  1. Decide where she would like to study them
  1. Look at the entry requirements for these courses and see if thats realistic give her higher prelim results. If not, go back to 1.

If she chooses a course based on her current interests then she will have no trouble writing her PS.

To be clear - Her biggest issues isn’t her PS, it’s that SHE doesn't know what she wants to do or study. She needs to work this out, not you.

Or she needs to come up with another plan for post school until she does decide what she wants to do. Universities will still be there in a few years.

Your OP is all over the place and I suspect that reflects your ( and her ) lack of clarity on this. Eg it doesn’t matter if she finds the conservatoire courses “ elitist “ - of course they are . But that’s irrelevant because you’ve already said that she’s not good enough.

It doesn't matter if she doenst like the private school pupils in her orchestra. When she goes to uni she can join one there and see if she likes the people better 🙄.

TBH You sound like you are constantly on the defensive, explaining why your Dd isn’t doing better. When the reality is that she’s doing fine.

And BTW there’s no “ period of intense testing “. They have 3 weeks holidays and then about 6 weeks of school from mid April to end May and thats the end of S5. If this is how you talk to your Dd in real life you must be winding her up terribly, which is the last thing she needs.

Yes there’s uncertainly but they are all in the same boat. Your” OMG she’sNot head girl she will be a failure all her life” thing isn’t helping her. Or you.

Please please step back a bit and stop obsessing about all this. Encourage her to look for courses that she’s interested in and read around the subjects a bit.

horseymum · 03/04/2021 16:45

If she enjoys music you can do it as part of an MA at Glasgow, no practical element so not like the conservatoire. You then do two other subjects, could be English and Psychology for example, then see where you go for second year, maybe one of them takes your fancy more so you carry that on. You carry on two subjects, and take up one new extra subject for second year. Then for honours, you specialise in one or two. It's great as it allows you variety and you can certainly pick up new things.
Glasgow was also brilliant for music opportunities, orchestras, wind and, contemporary music, early music, singing. You can easily find a student eg a post grad at the conservatoire to give you lessons if you want to continue that too.

StartingGate · 03/04/2021 17:40

I launched into this OP on the back of looking at the personal statements I saw here universitycompare.com/personal-statement-examples/

If you have a look at a few examples you’ll understand perhaps my slight sense of shock at what a PS has to look like these days. On reflection, I’m guessing these are a very cherry-picked sample of rather high-flying pupils. I’ve got a far more broader impression of what a PS might entail thanks to the generous contributions on this thread.

IOna our school has a 2 week period of testing planned as soon as they get back in after a 2 week holiday (not a 3 week holiday here) - then there is a week or so of feedback from the results of these prelim-style assessments then into a 4 week period of ‘final assessment’ tests/exams whatever you want to call them. Taking into account that this is happening after a 4 month period of pretty below-par home learning, I’d call this pretty ‘intense’. Yes, exam time is normally intense but you’ve got to admit that most kids are going to be facing this period with slightly more trepidation and stress then they might have had previously?

And I hear you when you say that 90% of other S5 pupils are in the same boat. I wasn’t claiming they weren’t. I also didn’t say my DD ‘didn’t like the private school pupils’ so you can wind your neck in on that one.

I’ll admit to coming to this feeling slightly stressed - pandemic and all that. I haven’t had a child go to university before and definitely not on the back of 2 years of no exams and the shitstorm we’ve just gone through. I know for sure that, had they been in school in a normal year, we might have felt better prepared for thinking ahead to university and finding out about all the fantastic schemes, online tours and assistance on offer to potential students (particularly for state school pupils). But the schools,teachers, parents and pupils have been desperately trying to get as much decent learning under theit belts in highly exceptional and challenging circumstances, and I think certain things have taken a bit of a back seat.

So have a dig at me being for ‘defensive’ and ‘dramatic’ and ‘obsessing’ by all means if it makes you feel better. But what on earth makes you think you can get away with talking to me like I’m a complete idiot? Do you advise people like this in real life?

The core of what you said makes perfect sense and I get it - I need to relax a bit and back-off perhaps and focus on her deciding what she wants to study. Great advice - but you could have said all that without the condescension thanks.

jocasta2018 my DD will be doing her Grade 8 cello with Trinity so didn’t need the ABRSM Grade 5 Theory - she’ll be taking Grade 8 piano with ABRSM once she’s passed the theory.

Thanks for the other tips of essay competitions and maybe thinking about Music Therapy. Good to hear from others who have got offers and places without having loads of extra curricular stuff. What’s come out of this loud and clear is that they need to articulate a genuine interest in the subject and be able to demonstrate this with some decent reading around the subject and evidence of some independent thinking and research.

Thanks also to Piggywaspushed for the great advice contained in your direct message - will definitely be following that up Smile

OP posts:
StartingGate · 03/04/2021 17:45

horseymum The MA at Glasgow looks great. One for my DD to consider I think.

OP posts: