Oxbridge Aspirants 2022

[TangoWhiskyAlphaTango]

Hi not too sure if there is another thread started as could not see one. May be waaaaaay too early but wondered if any other parents out there who have a child applying for next year?

Dd would like to apply to Cambridge to study History and Politics in 2022. She is at a state A-level college doing History, Politics and English Literature. I have never had to push her towards studying she is a very motivated child and wants to give Cambridge a shot (a very long shot as we know!). Her GCSE results were good but not top notch (9s in History, English Language and literature and the rest 7s and 6s) so not sure how much this will affect her. So far her A-level essays are coming out at As and A* and those are her predicted grades so if she continues on track that should meet the criteria.

She reads a lot of extra curricular stuff and has a genuine passion for politics, has joined the local Labour party youth group. She has applied for the summer programme at Cambridge & is part of an Oxbridge group that the college puts together.

It feels like a such a long shot and the stats of actually getting in are very low only 18% of applicants successful in 2019 so I am trying to tell her not to get her hopes up whilst actually supporting her!

She is my first born so I have never been through this before. Anybody else out there? Would be lovely to hear from you.

DD is definitely the play hard work hard type as are the others she knows who are going. I assume that's much more common than the work all the time types.
She got pooled to the college next door to the one she applied to (bigger and more expensive but otherwise little difference that I can see) but the others were all pooled to colleges further out... They all seem ok with it though even though they didn't choose them. I guess until they actually go they won't know how they feel about it.

@Buttonfm

I think what I gather is that they are looking for genuine passion for the subject, as well as high grades.

Does anyone know which Cambridge colleges are best if you come from a state school?

They do publish the stats (ie. state/indie split) and for the last couple of years it has been St Cat's at Cambridge that generally has a (slightly) larger state intake. However this can be a double edged sword in that it may attract even more state school kids and there be more competition for those places. In a time where the remit is to increase state school entrants one tactic might be to apply to ones with a higher indie intake currently as they will be under pressure to get to the 80/20 split they are seeking to achieve. (Currently at about 70/30).

So in the circumstances I would say apply to the one you like best.

@sandybayley Thank you , that’s really helpful - lots of opportunities to be doing other stuff is what DD will need!
Given applications to Oxbridge are early- only 6 months away 😱- she’s looked at a few colleges, largely driven by food and proximity to pubs but is unsure about the social side of things.
Her other potential Uni choices, so far that is, are largely driven by the ‘night life’ and a ‘bright lights vibe’

Ds had (has) friends from a range of backgrounds. At his college there was an "elite" group of girls from London independents who didn't really participate in college life but hot-footed it back to London at every opportunity, but the boys weren't like that at all. When ds arrived his "college father" (just a sort of buddy from the year above to help you out) was mega-posh, but ds said he was the kindest person and also fearsomely clever. One of ds's friends went to a famous boarding school, but had been boarding since age 7 as both parents were remarried with new families living abroad and they were a bit of a lost soul. Ds was surprised when they said they were so envious of ds when he talked about meeting up with his mates in the holidays for a kickabout in the park.

So basically it doesn't pay to judge a book by its (independent) cover.

DS is a fresher at a Cambridge college with a high proportion from state school. His household of six is a mix from (well known) selective London state sixth form, international (Chinese), regular state comp and Scottish and English indies. A seemingly diverse group studying a range of subjects but they are all bright and open minded and have become a close, supportive friendship group (albeit via Zoom from their homes this term).

Oh, I completely agree that friendships will be formed across the state/indie divide. I have some very dear friends who went to some of the most famous independent schools in the country, whereas I went to the local state comp. It doesn't matter a jot because we all have things in common and they are very lovely people.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that friendships won't form across that line, but merely commenting that there will be few state school pupils, at least, who aren't aware of the cultural differences. And I do know some state pupils - including one very recent example - who have ended up wishing that they had been at one of the other colleges due to a relative lack of socio-economic diversity in their own.

On the basis that every college is predominantly state I can only assume you mean Mansfield which is 94% state and therefore the only one I can think of where there is lack of socio economic diversity (although one would assume that even then they are not all from deprived backgrounds!)

@SeasonFinale, I'm talking about Cambridge, not Oxford. I don't know much about Mansfield College, but as you say, a predominantly state school intake doesn't necessarily preclude socio-economic diversity.

It is true that all of the Cambridge colleges have made progress with widening participation, and yes, I believe they are all over the 50% mark now, but there is still a big gap between those with the highest proportion from state and those with the lowest, and that does impact on the atmosphere/culture.

I should be more precise, though, because it isn't as simple as the difference between indie and state. I am thinking particularly of the colleges which have a high proportion of students from a certain type of independent school. The cultural difference between kids who went to provincial independent day schools and those who went to state schools will be much less pronounced.

I don’t get this antipathy towards these students. If they have a fine brain, they deserve a place, no? They are not monsters!

Of course there will be snooty types, but there will be cliques of all varieties.

I can understand feeling that you are out of place, but if supremely socially-awkward ds could find a group of good friends, anyone can!

No antipathy at all. I have some incredibly lovely and incredibly intelligent friends from top independent schools who absolutely deserved their places. I certainly don't think they're monsters.

I'm just saying that kids from an average state comp will likely notice a culture difference between themselves and kids from a certain type of independent school, and if they end up in a college where that type of culture is quite dominant, then they may wish that they had chosen differently. This was quite common when I was a student, but it was also the experience of a friend's dc just a couple of years ago.

In my experience, in the colleges with a better mix, those cultural differences tend to be much more diluted and friendships are formed more easily regardless of which school students attended.

In a climate where are Cambridge colleges are predominantly state school students I am afraid I can't work out which college does not have a diverse socio economic mix.

OK @SeasonFinale, I'm not going to start naming colleges.

Yes, it's true that all colleges will have a range of students from different socio-economic backgrounds. However, that doesn't mean that they are all equally representative of the population as a whole, and the differences between them can and do have an impact on the overall culture/ethos of a college. If that doesn't matter to you, then that's fine, but that doesn't mean that it won't be a legitimate consideration for others.

I think it is a shame that this type of reverse snobbery is impacting on student's enjoyment of their time at Cambridge, that is all.

Can I say something really controversial, and completely based on just our experience.

I would suggest the international contingent is actually less socially diverse than the UK's. By it's very nature, having to stump up huge fees, Chinese, American and Indian students are generally very wealthy, with very upper class backgrounds. They add to the universities racial diversity, but not it's demographic diversity. They are all lovely, DD had many international friends, they have stayed with me, and DD has gone to stay with them, but they do live very blessed lives compared to average UK undergrads.

@BigWoollyJumpers, oh yes, absolutely!

@SeasonFinale, you can call it reverse snobbery if you want, but unless you have experience of how alienating it can be for some state school kids to be in an environment that is very heavily influenced by the culture of a certain type of independent school, I think it's quite hard to understand. Thankfully, there is a much better balance in most of the colleges these days, and those who are still behind on widening participation will eventually catch up.

alexaShutUp - you are peddling a picture of Oxbridge from 30 years ago and you shouldn’t be scaring off current aspirants.

There are really far fewer Brideshead Revisited types swanning around now. They really do not dominate proceedings. If by “culture” you mean traditions, well, I think that 99% of those who go to Oxbridge from state-schools love the traditions. Widening participation should not mean canning the very things that were maybe out of reach to ordinary students before. Also very patronising: “Welcome, Poor Person. guess what? we’ve binned the gowns and dinners so you’ll feel more comfortable “

I'm absolutely not talking about the traditions. I absolutely loved all the formal halls and sherry with tutors etc. That's part of what made Cambridge special and I wouldn't want to lose it.

I am also not wanting to deter state school kids from applying. Far from it, I would like to see more kids apply from the state sector, and especially more from disadvantaged backgrounds. However, I want those kids to have a fantastic experience in Cambridge, and I do think the quality of their experience will be impacted to a greater or lesser extent by the college that they choose.

And yes, things have moved on immeasurably since 30 years ago, and I am very glad of that. I have no wish to belittle the progress that has been made. I merely have the impression from talking to friends' children with recent experience that there are pockets of Cambridge that have not changed as much as others. If that is not correct, then I am delighted to hear it - I can only go by what they have said.

My DD ( from a “provincial indie”)is a fresher at C, college is incredibly old and traditional. If anywhere might be assumed to be clinging on to the Sebastian Flyte behaviour being described it would be there. It isnt, quite the opposite in fact.
With respect to choosing a college; I’d be more concerned about the colleges’ pastoral approach taken during the pandemic which has varied widely, (not as one might expect from age/reputation/wealth) than whether I might bump into someone who went to Eton.

It would be really useful to this year's applicants if someone surveyed the experience of current students based on their college 'performance' during the pandemic. I'm aware that there has been huge variation between the colleges.

If you asked DS1 about his college I think he'd say it was 'middling'. Not great but quite relaxed and let freshers have some freedom without leading to a Covid outbreak. A bit inept in admin but friendly and good camaraderie amongst the freshers because of small size. I know there are some colleges I'll steer DD away from because of their lack of support given to students this year and their heavy handed approach. I'm not going to name them on a public forum though...

Well, there’s nothing wrong with a “pocket” then. Just as there might be pockets of any other type of person.

Agree, hobbema - ds’s friends doing a fourth year are reporting that his old college has unfortunately been crap. Very sad for this year’s freshers.

Well, there’s nothing wrong with a “pocket” then. Just as there might be pockets of any other type of person.

Yes indeed, it's just worth doing your research carefully in order to ensure that you don't end up in a pocket that really won't suit you!

Of course, there are many other factors to consider when choosing a college as well, pastoral support being one of them. I'm sure that there is a huge variation in how well the colleges have managed the pandemic.

Re pockets of different types of people, in my DC's experience (one at C) is that they both went for the cheapest accommodation option in the first year, and their corridor mates were mainly people who were, I suppose, careful with their money. Other friends who suggested their DC went for the more expensive options eg en-suites, etc, found their DC were with, on the whole, very rich students. This isn't a definitive study, but just something we noticed in passing. (Obviously, not everyone gets their first choice of accommodation)

Something which - anecdotally - seems to have happened this year with online interviews is that being interviewed from one's school / living room has slightly altered the balance of who has got in.

Those from backgrounds and schools who might have found both the physical unusualness of Oxbridge (not many people live amongst QUITE that much ancient or Gothic architecture on a day to day basis, after all), and the presence of perhaps more confident / louder fellow interviewees, quite intimidating have, at least locally, performed much better than usual (4x as many successful applicants from local comp), while those from the more 'traditionally Oxbridge focused' private or selective schools have fared less well.

@TangoWhiskyAlphaTango

Hi not too sure if there is another thread started as could not see one. May be waaaaaay too early but wondered if any other parents out there who have a child applying for next year?

Dd would like to apply to Cambridge to study History and Politics in 2022. She is at a state A-level college doing History, Politics and English Literature. I have never had to push her towards studying she is a very motivated child and wants to give Cambridge a shot (a very long shot as we know!). Her GCSE results were good but not top notch (9s in History, English Language and literature and the rest 7s and 6s) so not sure how much this will affect her. So far her A-level essays are coming out at As and A* and those are her predicted grades so if she continues on track that should meet the criteria.

She reads a lot of extra curricular stuff and has a genuine passion for politics, has joined the local Labour party youth group. She has applied for the summer programme at Cambridge & is part of an Oxbridge group that the college puts together.

It feels like a such a long shot and the stats of actually getting in are very low only 18% of applicants successful in 2019 so I am trying to tell her not to get her hopes up whilst actually supporting her!

She is my first born so I have never been through this before. Anybody else out there? Would be lovely to hear from you.

My daughter is also thinking of Politics/History/International Studies etc and looking at Oxbridge as well as St Andrews and Edinburgh. We are in Italy (but Brits)